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The failure isn't in that we're adding too much complexity (we have to be able to create complex structures) or that we're not layering it enough (leaky abstrac

The failure isn't in that we're adding too much complexity (we have to be able to create complex structures) or that we're not layering it enough (leaky abstractions build up). It's a general, and much more far-reaching, problem: our abstraction mechanisms are failing us. We need to stop complaining and put more effort into research. There are four or five projects working on this and, literally, hundreds of photo-sharing startups.

ntoshev 14y ago
Any links to such projects?
- ehsanu1 14y ago
  VPRI's STEPS project is one such project: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf
raverbashing 14y ago
"our abstraction mechanisms are failing us... There are four or five projects working on this and, literally, hundreds of photo-sharing startups." But it's the same thing! It's the same problems And IMHO in the technical places it's getting worse every day. The reason some photo sharing apps are bought by a billion dollar is the same as why lots os people use PHP even though "it sucks". User experience and ease of use. You don't need to limit yourself to a high level abstraction (like gnome) or provide the whole "under the hood" controls like you're flying an aircraft. Complexity has to be managed and split into stages. C'mon, even VIM has a smooth learning curve (and not a learning abyss, or being shut out) And stop the very prevalent mentality in technical circles of "if you're technical you have to read the manual". User experience has a place even when editing .conf files or using a command line tool, but some people make it out of the way harder just to make it accessible only "to the true believers".
- david927 14y ago
  Yes, everything is mixture of complexity. When an artist paints, she has to decide how simple or complex to make the work. But what we're talking about here is that once you pick up a PHP brush, you're screwed. That's why it sucks. You can't change brushes; you have a big fat crayon. And while that works for filling in the sky, you can't get any detail on the faces, for example. (Choose a fine brush and you have a different problem of spending all your time on the sky.) What I'm talking about when I say "our abstraction mechanisms are failing us" is the need to use any size brush at any time. And, as an aside, photo sharing apps are bought for billions for the same reason that tulips used to be worth a fortune. Uploading pictures of your cat is about as valuable as a 'Carnaval de Nice'.
d0mine 14y ago
Btw Instagram is an example of opinionated simple interface. You might be underestimating the complexity of creating such interface.

ntoshev 14y ago

Any links to such projects?

ehsanu1 14y ago
VPRI's STEPS project is one such project: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf

raverbashing 14y ago

"our abstraction mechanisms are failing us... There are four or five projects working on this and, literally, hundreds of photo-sharing startups." But it's the same thing! It's the same problems And IMHO in the technical places it's getting worse every day. The reason some photo sharing apps are bought by a billion dollar is the same as why lots os people use PHP even though "it sucks". User experience and ease of use. You don't need to limit yourself to a high level abstraction (like gnome) or provide the whole "under the hood" controls like you're flying an aircraft. Complexity has to be managed and split into stages. C'mon, even VIM has a smooth learning curve (and not a learning abyss, or being shut out) And stop the very prevalent mentality in technical circles of "if you're technical you have to read the manual". User experience has a place even when editing .conf files or using a command line tool, but some people make it out of the way harder just to make it accessible only "to the true believers".

david927 14y ago
Yes, everything is mixture of complexity. When an artist paints, she has to decide how simple or complex to make the work. But what we're talking about here is that once you pick up a PHP brush, you're screwed. That's why it sucks. You can't change brushes; you have a big fat crayon. And while that works for filling in the sky, you can't get any detail on the faces, for example. (Choose a fine brush and you have a different problem of spending all your time on the sky.) What I'm talking about when I say "our abstraction mechanisms are failing us" is the need to use any size brush at any time. And, as an aside, photo sharing apps are bought for billions for the same reason that tulips used to be worth a fortune. Uploading pictures of your cat is about as valuable as a 'Carnaval de Nice'.

d0mine 14y ago

Btw Instagram is an example of opinionated simple interface. You might be underestimating the complexity of creating such interface.