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Full height barriers would require extensive rework of many aspects of the subway system -- it's not just a matter of bolting walls to the floor. There are only

Full height barriers would require extensive rework of many aspects of the subway system -- it's not just a matter of bolting walls to the floor. There are only a handful of people who are killed when they are pushed or fall onto the tracks at a station each year. A few billion dollars could save a lot more lives deployed elsewhere in NYC.

bityard 3y ago
Okay, but is it not possible to spend much less to receive most of the benefit? The article, study, and GP are all talking about big full-height barriers. What would be the cost of a 4- or 5-foot fence with some automatic gates in it (per station)? Sure, some people could hop over it. Sure, it might not go the way to the end of the platform. But it would be _something_ and it would not cost anything like what they are proposing. It feels to me like someone was asked to come up with a reasonable solution, took a deliberate detour through Whataboutism-land, and came back with the most ludicrous price possible. Also, according to the MTA's own financial report (https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2023/03/MTA-Prelim-Report.pdf https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2...), the MTA has $5.6B in COVID-19 subsidy funding remaining, and they are expected to receive $15B in increased revenue from Congestion Pricing. So it sounds to me like they could probably afford even the ludicrously-priced barriers.
- dtech 3y ago
  Your question is answered in the article, and also the solution they deemed most feasible which is already deployed in a station.
- jcranmer 3y ago
  > What would be the cost of a 4- or 5-foot fence with some automatic gates in it (per station)? Per Alon Levy, from comparisons with installation costs elsewhere, about $10 million per station: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2022/01/20/platform-edge-doors/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2022/01/20/platform-edge-...
bart_spoon 3y ago
What do you mean by “full height barriers”? Because in Japan, the barriers that exist are probably 4-5 feet tall, and pretty much are essentially walls bolted to the floor. I fail to see how those wouldn’t achieve the result while not costing nearly that much.
- wenc 3y ago
  From the article: > The total cost for installing full-height gates in just those 128 stations would be over $7 billion, the agency found, and half-height gates would cost $6.53 billion. Once installed, the agency would have to spend more than $119 million each year to maintain the doors.

bityard 3y ago

Okay, but is it not possible to spend much less to receive most of the benefit? The article, study, and GP are all talking about big full-height barriers. What would be the cost of a 4- or 5-foot fence with some automatic gates in it (per station)? Sure, some people could hop over it. Sure, it might not go the way to the end of the platform. But it would be _something_ and it would not cost anything like what they are proposing. It feels to me like someone was asked to come up with a reasonable solution, took a deliberate detour through Whataboutism-land, and came back with the most ludicrous price possible. Also, according to the MTA's own financial report (https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2023/03/MTA-Prelim-Report.pdf https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2...), the MTA has $5.6B in COVID-19 subsidy funding remaining, and they are expected to receive $15B in increased revenue from Congestion Pricing. So it sounds to me like they could probably afford even the ludicrously-priced barriers.

dtech 3y ago
Your question is answered in the article, and also the solution they deemed most feasible which is already deployed in a station.
jcranmer 3y ago
> What would be the cost of a 4- or 5-foot fence with some automatic gates in it (per station)? Per Alon Levy, from comparisons with installation costs elsewhere, about $10 million per station: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2022/01/20/platform-edge-doors/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2022/01/20/platform-edge-...

bart_spoon 3y ago

What do you mean by “full height barriers”? Because in Japan, the barriers that exist are probably 4-5 feet tall, and pretty much are essentially walls bolted to the floor. I fail to see how those wouldn’t achieve the result while not costing nearly that much.

wenc 3y ago
From the article: > The total cost for installing full-height gates in just those 128 stations would be over $7 billion, the agency found, and half-height gates would cost $6.53 billion. Once installed, the agency would have to spend more than $119 million each year to maintain the doors.