7 ms·

Dumb Like Me: A Year Low On Oxygen

86 points by rjurney 14y ago

somestuff 14y ago
i liak ham, iz gud
- somestuff 14y ago
  self suppert the ham liak scenario, iz gud
somestuff 14y ago
So hey, Russell or anyone. My father has had sleep apnea for some years and due to 2008 finance fuckery the loss of most of his retirement funds and loss of his career, his health has been in a downward spiral. In particular his mental health worries me. Just reading the title of this post I feel strong emotions about this issue. Imgur.com and getting him the fuck off television has been a godsend as its more than a one way street, but without massive financial help all the needed care is impossible. Jesus christ this post is sad fuck the USA.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
josephcooney 14y ago
how do you discover if you have a condition like this? I bet that could be a diabolical problem - you need cognitive surplus to recognize you have a problem, and investigate what the causes might be and how you can identify them. And the problem you have is robbing you of that cognitive surplus.
- zitterbewegung 14y ago
  You or someone you know notices your behavior changing or you show other symptoms and then you see a doctor? Then the doctor diagnoses you with this problem. I don't see how else you would discover it.
berntb 14y ago
There are other reasons you might stop functioning. From me and people I know, you might feel bad and just stop functioning (tiredness, lack of energy) from undiagnosed allergies without throat symptoms, iron deficiency and a simple bacteria infection in a tooth. Also note that you might e.g. increase in weight from being tired and then get sleep apnea, so there might be a reason behind some problems. Please don't waste as much time as I personally did. (Yes, more than one year.) Disclaimer: I am no medical expert and don't know about relative risks.
colonel_panic 14y ago
Does he mean he's writing a book about this experience? I guess it will be like Flowers for Algernon, but inverted.
baddox 14y ago
I found the implication that less intelligent people are more expressive and in control of their emotions rather odd.
- spindritf 14y ago
  I think it's the opposite -- they're less in control of their emotions. Impulse control is correlated with IQ AFAIR. Which is why the author had a chance to practice self-control.
  - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
    ADHD is correlated with a decrease of 10 IQ points.
mgkimsal 14y ago
Odd... I don't think I have that condition, yet still cry openly at sad bits in movies. Or songs. Or TV shows. Heck, I was just crying at AYBS? last night (just the sad bit).
lee 14y ago
I had the reverse happen to me. Since my teens, I had been lethargic and constantly tired. I could sleep for 9 to 10 hours a day and still be exhausted. I'd nap if I could. Throughout the day, I'd just feel constantly tired, even in the morning. At the prodding of my wife, I saw a physician about it and got a sleep study done. I found I out had obstructive sleep apnea. They put me on a CPAP device. I remember the first time waking up after using it. I felt like a new person, like I was a walking zombie who got a second chance at life. It's been a year since I started using it, and it's hard for me to imagine how I survived previously without that CPAP device. Life has become so much easier. I feel smarter, because I have the ability to focus my attention much longer, participate in conversations more easily, and not be so easily confused during meetings. When you're just a bit smarter, it has compounding effects on your life. The worst thing about this, was that since my tiredness was so chronic, and since I had never experienced being totally rejuvenated, I never thought I had a sleeping problem. I just attributed to being an immutable property of who I am, or my physical body, and never something that could be corrected.
- giardini 14y ago
  Several posts here about the marvelous CPAP machine, but I've never known anyone who used a CPAP to any benefit. They take them off during the night, the mask comes undone when they roll over, etc. Like those mobility carts advertised on late-night TV for obese/walk-impaired people, the CPAP appears to be primarily another profit centre for manufacturers who feed on the Medicare/Medicaid, welfare and insurance systems. Meanwhile there's no question that the problem is real. But more direct solutions are better: take learn how to breathe deeply, exercise, lose weight (most people on CPAP are obese), eat better, take vitamins (E, B12 and iron, aid oxygen transport), drink coffee!
  - DenisM 14y ago
    This is a terrible advice. If you have a problem please see a doctor, do not try squashing it with caffeine. If CPAP is not working ask about other treatments - dental appliances, various surgeries, ask the doctor. Weight loss is the only sensible advice from the above post, however losing weight is impossibly hard when you're low on oxygen. Start breahing first, then lose weight.
xyzzyz 14y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990498 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990498 Similar story posted some time ago.
spindritf 14y ago
> Being dumb came with a shocking loss of privilege. This was humbling. Smart people, like the very attractive, get special treatment they do not know they are getting. I think this is the most impactful part, could you elaborate? Describe a few of those experiences? People talk a lot about privilege, how taller people make more money for no apparent reason, how good looking people are treated better, particularly women, but IMHO it's intelligence that gives one the biggest boost in (non-romantic) relations with others in today's society. Sure, there's an awkward geek who doesn't get as much as they could with their IQ scores but if you're relatively intelligent, and especially if you're also talkative, you can see the attitudes of people (from the cable guy and cashier at the store to course instructors and priests) changing in real time as your sentences get longer and not corrupted with filling words, as you with drop a few two-dollar words or describe an even relatively simple physics mechanism. Their eyes light up. Maybe it's just because they have to give you more attention to process what you're saying but the difference is more than noticeable.
- jonnathanson 14y ago
  Maybe this is pure anecdote, but I've noticed that more intelligent (especially hyperintelligent) people tend to have more attention to give in a conversation. They're more present. They can follow what you're saying, or lead you in directions you hadn't considered (i.e., by surfacing insight). This makes for a dynamic, interesting conversation that -- to your point -- forces you to stay alert and engaged with them. The exchange is more engaging on both sides, regardless of subject matter. And subconsciously, we tend to think more highly of people who seem more engaged with what we're saying.
  - antidoh 14y ago
    Humans being human, that's not universal. While I've noticed that some very intelligent people are more pleasant and enlightening to talk to, some others just can't seem to be bothered to give you their full attention. It's as if you don't meet their "worth paying attention to" threshold. Symptoms can be anything from a vague dullness of the eyes, to glancing or even reading their monitor, to just total loss of engagement in the middle of a sentence. But again, humans being humans, that's not limited to very intelligent people.
Wickk 14y ago
I have severe asthma, when I have an attack that will last for hours this used to be how I would describe what it's like during that time. I loathe those periods when I can't think, process a thought correctly or function like I do when I'm just breathing like normal. I can't imagine going through this every second of my day for as long you do did. And in comparison those few hours when I can't breathe and I'm waiting for my medicine to work feel like a blessing in the sense that it could very much worse like what you experienced. Wow.
joelrunyon 14y ago
Here's the original Quora thread this is reposted from - http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid
DanielBMarkham 14y ago
As somebody who had severe OSA for several years and didn't know it, a couple of points. 1) For onlookers, especially with a chronic condition, this is symptom-free. You might just appear to be more cranky, or forgetful -- normal signs of aging. 2) Even for the person experiencing it, chronic hypoxia doesn't necessarily "feel" like anything. I was regularly getting my blood oxygen down into the upper 60s and as long as I had enormous amounts of caffeine I was good to go. Over time, especially after getting a CPAP, I realized to look for symptoms: skipping over words in the middle of a sentence and guessing incorrectly what they were, a more difficult time focusing (both mentally and with my eyes), and so on. Hypoxia in pilots has been studied over and over again, and no matter how hard you train, it still sneaks up on people and takes over. Scary stuff. 3)You do not necessarily experience an overnight resurrection when this condition is fixed. Many do, but many do not. Sometimes you just realize that you're now entering a long phase of recovery. I can't adequately describe the emotional transition that goes with recognizing hypoxia and getting it fixed. There's a sense of joy, sure, but also a sense of fear: you realize just how close to death you were living, and how dependent you now are on a machine (or drug or whatnot). Living low on oxygen is a frightening and life-changing experience. Once I realized I was basically strangling myself every night -- passing out and then coming to over and over again just enough to be able to breathe again -- it dramatically changed my image of my body not letting me down. Hypoxia teaches that you can be severely broken in ways that you are not able to discern. Not fun.
- cpher 14y ago
  Your experience sounds like mine. I've been on a CPAP for almost 3 months now, and after 5 hours of sleep I'll lie awake in bed ready to start the day. It's really amazing what "good" quality sleep does for you. During my sleep study, I peaked at 52 apnea events/hour (25+ is considered extreme). Plus, my wife is getting better sleep without my snoring!
  - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
    I was measured at 113, but they probably caught me on a bad night :) It is truly amazing the difference, not only in wakefulness but in attitude and ability to intellectually focus that a good night's sleep brings.
steve8918 14y ago
About 9 months ago I went through the exact same thing. I was experiencing the inability to learn new things, the inability to remember very basic words (so I would stall in the middle of a conversation, trying to remember the word), and sometimes I was confused over things that were extremely basic, like which toothbrush was mine. It was extremely debilitating, and being a programmer it affected my performance drastically. I couldn't fix bugs quickly, and when given new tasks, it would take me much much longer to actually understand WTF I was supposed to do. I then started getting a tremendous headache that felt like a vise grip on the back of my neck, and at that point, I couldn't even remember what I had done earlier that day. Trying to learn new things was almost impossible, it was like my brain was unable to function at all. After a couple of months of this, I finally went to the doctor, and immediately got an MRI for possible brain tumor. Thankfully it turned out negative, and that's when I did some self-diagnosis and thought I must be sleep-deprived. I was getting about 4-6 hrs sleep every night for years, so I immediately started getting into bed at 10pm and would lay there until I eventually fell asleep. Within a week, my headache disappeared and I felt much better. The funny thing is that since then, I can't stay away past 10:30pm, regardless of how long I sleep. By 9:30pm I'm exhausted, and after staying up past midnight for years/decades, a few months after sleeping at 10:30pm, I have almost no capacity to stay up late anymore. I still think I have other sleep problems like obstructive sleep apnea, because I still don't get good quality sleep, so I'm scheduled for a sleep clinic in the next few weeks. I went to a seminar hosted by Kaiser on this, and the symptoms of obstructive sleep apnea were so exactly the same as what I was experiencing that I almost burst into tears because I realized I wasn't crazy, and it felt like there was finally some hope. In summary: get your sleep, it is precious!
- DenisM 14y ago
  Welcome to being old! :) while you can no longer stay up all night, the company here is nice and every morning can become a little cause for celebration if you slept well. I'll fix you a cup of decaf tee. :) On a more serious note, if tests show apnea be sure to inquire about all remedies. I spent months in a love/hate relationship with CPAP before I discovered a more expensive but much more convenient dental appliance. So grill them till you hear all options.
Daniel_Newby 14y ago
Former Googler Piaw Na writes about his sleep apnea problem: http://www.google.com/search?q=piaw+na+sleep+apnea http://www.google.com/search?q=piaw+na+sleep+apnea He says that many Asians with sleep apnea are NOT obese. They are predisposed by racial variations in anatomy.
gonzo 14y ago
About 2.5 years ago, I went through the exact same thing. I managed to survive an ascending aortic dissection, and the resultant 11 hours of emergency open heart surgery. post-surgery, my RBC count was abysmal. Simply walking would cause an intense headache. I feared it would never improve, and that I would be stupid forever. but I did.

86 points by rjurney 14y ago

somestuff 14y ago

i liak ham, iz gud

somestuff 14y ago
self suppert the ham liak scenario, iz gud

somestuff 14y ago

So hey, Russell or anyone. My father has had sleep apnea for some years and due to 2008 finance fuckery the loss of most of his retirement funds and loss of his career, his health has been in a downward spiral. In particular his mental health worries me. Just reading the title of this post I feel strong emotions about this issue. Imgur.com and getting him the fuck off television has been a godsend as its more than a one way street, but without massive financial help all the needed care is impossible. Jesus christ this post is sad fuck the USA.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

josephcooney 14y ago

how do you discover if you have a condition like this? I bet that could be a diabolical problem - you need cognitive surplus to recognize you have a problem, and investigate what the causes might be and how you can identify them. And the problem you have is robbing you of that cognitive surplus.

zitterbewegung 14y ago
You or someone you know notices your behavior changing or you show other symptoms and then you see a doctor? Then the doctor diagnoses you with this problem. I don't see how else you would discover it.

berntb 14y ago

There are other reasons you might stop functioning. From me and people I know, you might feel bad and just stop functioning (tiredness, lack of energy) from undiagnosed allergies without throat symptoms, iron deficiency and a simple bacteria infection in a tooth. Also note that you might e.g. increase in weight from being tired and then get sleep apnea, so there might be a reason behind some problems. Please don't waste as much time as I personally did. (Yes, more than one year.) Disclaimer: I am no medical expert and don't know about relative risks.

colonel_panic 14y ago

Does he mean he's writing a book about this experience? I guess it will be like Flowers for Algernon, but inverted.

baddox 14y ago

I found the implication that less intelligent people are more expressive and in control of their emotions rather odd.

spindritf 14y ago
I think it's the opposite -- they're less in control of their emotions. Impulse control is correlated with IQ AFAIR. Which is why the author had a chance to practice self-control.
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  ADHD is correlated with a decrease of 10 IQ points.

mgkimsal 14y ago

Odd... I don't think I have that condition, yet still cry openly at sad bits in movies. Or songs. Or TV shows. Heck, I was just crying at AYBS? last night (just the sad bit).

lee 14y ago

I had the reverse happen to me. Since my teens, I had been lethargic and constantly tired. I could sleep for 9 to 10 hours a day and still be exhausted. I'd nap if I could. Throughout the day, I'd just feel constantly tired, even in the morning. At the prodding of my wife, I saw a physician about it and got a sleep study done. I found I out had obstructive sleep apnea. They put me on a CPAP device. I remember the first time waking up after using it. I felt like a new person, like I was a walking zombie who got a second chance at life. It's been a year since I started using it, and it's hard for me to imagine how I survived previously without that CPAP device. Life has become so much easier. I feel smarter, because I have the ability to focus my attention much longer, participate in conversations more easily, and not be so easily confused during meetings. When you're just a bit smarter, it has compounding effects on your life. The worst thing about this, was that since my tiredness was so chronic, and since I had never experienced being totally rejuvenated, I never thought I had a sleeping problem. I just attributed to being an immutable property of who I am, or my physical body, and never something that could be corrected.

giardini 14y ago
Several posts here about the marvelous CPAP machine, but I've never known anyone who used a CPAP to any benefit. They take them off during the night, the mask comes undone when they roll over, etc. Like those mobility carts advertised on late-night TV for obese/walk-impaired people, the CPAP appears to be primarily another profit centre for manufacturers who feed on the Medicare/Medicaid, welfare and insurance systems. Meanwhile there's no question that the problem is real. But more direct solutions are better: take learn how to breathe deeply, exercise, lose weight (most people on CPAP are obese), eat better, take vitamins (E, B12 and iron, aid oxygen transport), drink coffee!
- DenisM 14y ago
  This is a terrible advice. If you have a problem please see a doctor, do not try squashing it with caffeine. If CPAP is not working ask about other treatments - dental appliances, various surgeries, ask the doctor. Weight loss is the only sensible advice from the above post, however losing weight is impossibly hard when you're low on oxygen. Start breahing first, then lose weight.

xyzzyz 14y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990498 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1990498 Similar story posted some time ago.

spindritf 14y ago

> Being dumb came with a shocking loss of privilege. This was humbling. Smart people, like the very attractive, get special treatment they do not know they are getting. I think this is the most impactful part, could you elaborate? Describe a few of those experiences? People talk a lot about privilege, how taller people make more money for no apparent reason, how good looking people are treated better, particularly women, but IMHO it's intelligence that gives one the biggest boost in (non-romantic) relations with others in today's society. Sure, there's an awkward geek who doesn't get as much as they could with their IQ scores but if you're relatively intelligent, and especially if you're also talkative, you can see the attitudes of people (from the cable guy and cashier at the store to course instructors and priests) changing in real time as your sentences get longer and not corrupted with filling words, as you with drop a few two-dollar words or describe an even relatively simple physics mechanism. Their eyes light up. Maybe it's just because they have to give you more attention to process what you're saying but the difference is more than noticeable.

jonnathanson 14y ago
Maybe this is pure anecdote, but I've noticed that more intelligent (especially hyperintelligent) people tend to have more attention to give in a conversation. They're more present. They can follow what you're saying, or lead you in directions you hadn't considered (i.e., by surfacing insight). This makes for a dynamic, interesting conversation that -- to your point -- forces you to stay alert and engaged with them. The exchange is more engaging on both sides, regardless of subject matter. And subconsciously, we tend to think more highly of people who seem more engaged with what we're saying.
- antidoh 14y ago
  Humans being human, that's not universal. While I've noticed that some very intelligent people are more pleasant and enlightening to talk to, some others just can't seem to be bothered to give you their full attention. It's as if you don't meet their "worth paying attention to" threshold. Symptoms can be anything from a vague dullness of the eyes, to glancing or even reading their monitor, to just total loss of engagement in the middle of a sentence. But again, humans being humans, that's not limited to very intelligent people.

Wickk 14y ago

I have severe asthma, when I have an attack that will last for hours this used to be how I would describe what it's like during that time. I loathe those periods when I can't think, process a thought correctly or function like I do when I'm just breathing like normal. I can't imagine going through this every second of my day for as long you do did. And in comparison those few hours when I can't breathe and I'm waiting for my medicine to work feel like a blessing in the sense that it could very much worse like what you experienced. Wow.

joelrunyon 14y ago

Here's the original Quora thread this is reposted from - http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid

DanielBMarkham 14y ago

As somebody who had severe OSA for several years and didn't know it, a couple of points. 1) For onlookers, especially with a chronic condition, this is symptom-free. You might just appear to be more cranky, or forgetful -- normal signs of aging. 2) Even for the person experiencing it, chronic hypoxia doesn't necessarily "feel" like anything. I was regularly getting my blood oxygen down into the upper 60s and as long as I had enormous amounts of caffeine I was good to go. Over time, especially after getting a CPAP, I realized to look for symptoms: skipping over words in the middle of a sentence and guessing incorrectly what they were, a more difficult time focusing (both mentally and with my eyes), and so on. Hypoxia in pilots has been studied over and over again, and no matter how hard you train, it still sneaks up on people and takes over. Scary stuff. 3)You do not necessarily experience an overnight resurrection when this condition is fixed. Many do, but many do not. Sometimes you just realize that you're now entering a long phase of recovery. I can't adequately describe the emotional transition that goes with recognizing hypoxia and getting it fixed. There's a sense of joy, sure, but also a sense of fear: you realize just how close to death you were living, and how dependent you now are on a machine (or drug or whatnot). Living low on oxygen is a frightening and life-changing experience. Once I realized I was basically strangling myself every night -- passing out and then coming to over and over again just enough to be able to breathe again -- it dramatically changed my image of my body not letting me down. Hypoxia teaches that you can be severely broken in ways that you are not able to discern. Not fun.

cpher 14y ago
Your experience sounds like mine. I've been on a CPAP for almost 3 months now, and after 5 hours of sleep I'll lie awake in bed ready to start the day. It's really amazing what "good" quality sleep does for you. During my sleep study, I peaked at 52 apnea events/hour (25+ is considered extreme). Plus, my wife is getting better sleep without my snoring!
- DanielBMarkham 14y ago
  I was measured at 113, but they probably caught me on a bad night :) It is truly amazing the difference, not only in wakefulness but in attitude and ability to intellectually focus that a good night's sleep brings.

steve8918 14y ago

About 9 months ago I went through the exact same thing. I was experiencing the inability to learn new things, the inability to remember very basic words (so I would stall in the middle of a conversation, trying to remember the word), and sometimes I was confused over things that were extremely basic, like which toothbrush was mine. It was extremely debilitating, and being a programmer it affected my performance drastically. I couldn't fix bugs quickly, and when given new tasks, it would take me much much longer to actually understand WTF I was supposed to do. I then started getting a tremendous headache that felt like a vise grip on the back of my neck, and at that point, I couldn't even remember what I had done earlier that day. Trying to learn new things was almost impossible, it was like my brain was unable to function at all. After a couple of months of this, I finally went to the doctor, and immediately got an MRI for possible brain tumor. Thankfully it turned out negative, and that's when I did some self-diagnosis and thought I must be sleep-deprived. I was getting about 4-6 hrs sleep every night for years, so I immediately started getting into bed at 10pm and would lay there until I eventually fell asleep. Within a week, my headache disappeared and I felt much better. The funny thing is that since then, I can't stay away past 10:30pm, regardless of how long I sleep. By 9:30pm I'm exhausted, and after staying up past midnight for years/decades, a few months after sleeping at 10:30pm, I have almost no capacity to stay up late anymore. I still think I have other sleep problems like obstructive sleep apnea, because I still don't get good quality sleep, so I'm scheduled for a sleep clinic in the next few weeks. I went to a seminar hosted by Kaiser on this, and the symptoms of obstructive sleep apnea were so exactly the same as what I was experiencing that I almost burst into tears because I realized I wasn't crazy, and it felt like there was finally some hope. In summary: get your sleep, it is precious!

DenisM 14y ago
Welcome to being old! :) while you can no longer stay up all night, the company here is nice and every morning can become a little cause for celebration if you slept well. I'll fix you a cup of decaf tee. :) On a more serious note, if tests show apnea be sure to inquire about all remedies. I spent months in a love/hate relationship with CPAP before I discovered a more expensive but much more convenient dental appliance. So grill them till you hear all options.

Daniel_Newby 14y ago

Former Googler Piaw Na writes about his sleep apnea problem: http://www.google.com/search?q=piaw+na+sleep+apnea http://www.google.com/search?q=piaw+na+sleep+apnea He says that many Asians with sleep apnea are NOT obese. They are predisposed by racial variations in anatomy.

gonzo 14y ago

About 2.5 years ago, I went through the exact same thing. I managed to survive an ascending aortic dissection, and the resultant 11 hours of emergency open heart surgery. post-surgery, my RBC count was abysmal. Simply walking would cause an intense headache. I feared it would never improve, and that I would be stupid forever. but I did.