3 ms·

> I realized that many “women in tech” were doing the same thing to sex workers that they accuse men of doing to them - speaking over them, speaking for them wi

> I realized that many “women in tech” were doing the same thing to sex workers that they accuse men of doing to them - speaking over them, speaking for them without getting input from the people directly affected - ultimately with the goal of exclusion and control of sexuality. This isn't limited to just sex work or "women in tech" In my observation there's a real problem with petit bourgeoisie people all over, talking over the people who are actually living through things. People with no actual stake in outcomes are ignoring the people who do have a stake, sometimes a huge stake It's not great

yieldcrv 3y ago
yeah, at first I was mildly amused by the “inclusion by exclusion” that I saw in professional circles in the SF Bay Area, specifically amused by how it was ironic, and how it was unquestioned because people would privilege the opinions of the token representation saying the idea But now hearing from more of the affected populations, it is indefensible to me now
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  It becomes very obvious when you start to analyze along economic lines instead of intersectional ones A white woman growing up poor in a trailer park and a black woman growing up poor in the inner city are more likely to have similar struggles than the poor black woman and an upper middle class black woman The upper middle class black woman is the one who is the token representation in a professional setting. She imagines her struggles represent the struggles of the poor black woman, but they don't She probably did struggle more than her upper class white female colleagues, but her struggles were almost certainly very different from poor black women's struggles So we wind up chasing our tails with these DEI initiatives, when the problems they claim to solve aren't about race diversity really. They're about class. You can't solve class problems by treating them as race problems
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    Glad to see someone else make that observation Misdiagnosing these things just because of a disproportionate impact to a marginalized group has limited efficacy because it relies on indicting the hearts and minds of people that don’t feel or think in the imagined way to begin with. So yeah these initiatives wind up going in circles, and losing support of would be allies because it’s based on demonizing them hoping they continually atone for something ambiguous. And even in your example, this is a good highlight, some upper middle class black people try to distance themselves from other black people based on dialect but specifically talking down on vernacular English. if you know what you’re looking at the same occurs with some of our Indian population such that Seattle got that anti caste discrimination law passed specifically to point out that we’re not going to accept the rampant denial of India’s problems replicated in the US the only reason this stuff flies is because the self proclaimed progressive people aren't listening or understanding the people they want to include. they're performing rituals for each other. they’re unwilling to see their own efforts as unproductive or even counterproductive as they're too busy distancing themselves from apathetic people and overtly exclusionary people. just listen to the affected groups, heavily scrutinize if someone’s comfort is at the expense of someone else’s, such as “why are we privileging theirs” and if the reason is sexist or racial then you’ve found a flaw in the entire logic from the so called progressive, which you can use as leverage against them in their own performative circles

yieldcrv 3y ago

yeah, at first I was mildly amused by the “inclusion by exclusion” that I saw in professional circles in the SF Bay Area, specifically amused by how it was ironic, and how it was unquestioned because people would privilege the opinions of the token representation saying the idea But now hearing from more of the affected populations, it is indefensible to me now

bluefirebrand 3y ago
It becomes very obvious when you start to analyze along economic lines instead of intersectional ones A white woman growing up poor in a trailer park and a black woman growing up poor in the inner city are more likely to have similar struggles than the poor black woman and an upper middle class black woman The upper middle class black woman is the one who is the token representation in a professional setting. She imagines her struggles represent the struggles of the poor black woman, but they don't She probably did struggle more than her upper class white female colleagues, but her struggles were almost certainly very different from poor black women's struggles So we wind up chasing our tails with these DEI initiatives, when the problems they claim to solve aren't about race diversity really. They're about class. You can't solve class problems by treating them as race problems
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  Glad to see someone else make that observation Misdiagnosing these things just because of a disproportionate impact to a marginalized group has limited efficacy because it relies on indicting the hearts and minds of people that don’t feel or think in the imagined way to begin with. So yeah these initiatives wind up going in circles, and losing support of would be allies because it’s based on demonizing them hoping they continually atone for something ambiguous. And even in your example, this is a good highlight, some upper middle class black people try to distance themselves from other black people based on dialect but specifically talking down on vernacular English. if you know what you’re looking at the same occurs with some of our Indian population such that Seattle got that anti caste discrimination law passed specifically to point out that we’re not going to accept the rampant denial of India’s problems replicated in the US the only reason this stuff flies is because the self proclaimed progressive people aren't listening or understanding the people they want to include. they're performing rituals for each other. they’re unwilling to see their own efforts as unproductive or even counterproductive as they're too busy distancing themselves from apathetic people and overtly exclusionary people. just listen to the affected groups, heavily scrutinize if someone’s comfort is at the expense of someone else’s, such as “why are we privileging theirs” and if the reason is sexist or racial then you’ve found a flaw in the entire logic from the so called progressive, which you can use as leverage against them in their own performative circles