6 ms·

Ask HN: How do I find a job, in this market with ADHD

33 points by sillycorn 2y ago

Hello HN, A little background about me. I am a software developer, based in US, currently. Due to a lot of personal issues in my life, and upon reflecting about myself about things I faced since my childhood. I visited a psychiatrist recently and was diagnosed with ADHD. I consider myself a good coder, I'm very creative with my approach to the problems. I pick new things very easily and my skillset is also very diverse. My employers in past have always been happy to have me on team. And always consider me an asset. But one thing I really suck at is interviews. My mouth just can't keep up with my mind and I end up blurting nonsense. I mess up the easiest questions. My skillset doesn't translate to the interview format at all. I fiddle, I get lost. Worst part is, I started my career as a freelancer, then I got an offer from a start-up after being impressed with my work. Then another startup hired me, looking at my work in the previous start-up. And I've never had a real interview after college. I'm not tensed during the interview, but I just can't bring myself to focus during the duration of interview. I recently completed my masters, and I'm on an F1 status in US. And job market has not been so good unless I get enrolled in shady consultancies, which I don't want to. Anyone who can offer me an advice, I would genuinely appreciate it. Especially if you have been through something similar I would like to learn from you.

cranberryturkey 2y ago
the entire job market for tech is in a large bust cycle and the internview process is a complete shit show. until these two processes improve I don't know. I'm 49 with 25+ years of experience and haven't worked since august.
- odyssey7 2y ago
  I’ve been checking layoffs.fyi. Maybe it’s turned a corner but it’s hard to say.
- tndibona 2y ago
  I’m not far behind with work ex since 2008. I still have my current job which pays well but I’m going to start looking around because I’m moving closer to nyc. Why’d you say the process is a shit show ? Asking to prepare that’s all.
  - cranberryturkey 2y ago
    4 rounds of tech screens when a simple call will suffice.
- richrichie 2y ago
  Hear you. 49 is also a tricky age, considered too old. I am about the same age have faced challenges finding work since covid19 layoffs.
gedy 2y ago
Look for companies that do take home coding exercise (projects, not hackerrank quizzes) instead of the leetcode whiteboard stuff. Those tend to focus on quality of work vs verbal timed quizzes, which many good engineers aren't good at. The verbal, in-person stuff tends to favor good-sounding and good-looking people, and awkward types are at a disadvantage to begin with.
- sillycorn 2y ago
  This is a good advice. I will try this. Thanks.
- tndibona 2y ago
  This is good advice considering the author says that he tends to mess up interviews by blurting stuff. Leetcode based timed quizzes inevitably optimize for memory recollection i.e if you seen a similar problem from the pool of problems. Trying to balance a binary tree under a 15 minute timer just proves that you’re a puzzle solver and not problem solver. Take a coding exercise to solve at home. Is there a way to filter companies that choose this approach ? Seems like all the top tech jobs require the leetcode method.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
> I visited a psychiatrist recently and was diagnosed with ADHD. Were you prescribed any medication? Just getting a diagnosis is good, and learning some tools to help you cope is great, but honestly medication has done wonders for me when I was taking it. (I'm not going to say which specific one, because I'm not a doctor, and what worked for me may not work for you.) > And job market has not been so good unless I get enrolled in shady consultancies, which I don't want to. What sort of shadiness are you talking about? If they're just crappy build-out-six-CRUD-apps-a-week shops, but their paychecks don't bounce... well, rent doesn't pay itself, you know? On the other hand, if they're doing something explicitly immoral or illegal, then yeah, avoid those.
- sillycorn 2y ago
  > Were you prescribed any medication. Yes I'm hesitant to it because. Im worried about developinand addiction to it. If you wouldn't mind sharing some insight from your experience how is it. > What sort of shadiness are you talking about? Lying about my VISA status, experience etc.
  - replwoacause 2y ago
    I've been taking ADHD medications for 15 years, off and on, and have never developed any dependencies. You may have to experiment a little bit to find the right medication and dosage, but I don't think developing an "addiction" should be a big concern for you. Ask your provider for the lowest therapeutic dose and stick with that for as long as you can. For example, I take 27mg of Concerta (a low-dose of long acting Ritalin) and I barely notice it, except for at the end of the day, I'm like "damn, I just cranked out 6 hours of uninterrupted productive work". If you are genuinely ADHD, it will feel like putting on a pair of corrective lenses for your mind, it's not going to feel like getting high.
    - sillycorn 2y ago
      Thank you for your advice, I will discuss with my provider about this.
  - 2y ago
_boffin_ 2y ago
Fight yourself. Fight yourself all day as the world doesn’t revolve around you. Learn how to compensate for tote issues. Do t change up everything, but learn to communicate. Carry something to fidget with that allows your hand to move as much as needed which then allows the body to be a little bit calmer and focused. I carry a satin sash everywhere that I constantly play with. Always out of sight, but I’m playing with it. It allows me to take some of that energy and spend it there while I fight myself to pay attention. You’ve stated issues you have focusing on the interview. Work on those. Go get purposely bored and work on those skills. It’s not fun. It sucks. But you’re not going to change until the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.
- sillycorn 2y ago
  I tried using some fiddling stuff in past around people, it seems to annoy them. But yeah, having this diagnosis was a relief in a way, it answered the unknown to me. I'm still learning on how to cope with it, but definitely some helpful suggestions thanks.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Yeah, the annoyance to others is a big thing. I've had success getting stuff that is quiet and sits in my pocket. If you search on Amazon for ADHD fidget toys for adults, you'll find quite a few options. The one that works the best for me, is a little brass cube that has gears on each side. You can spin the gears easily in your pocket without looking , and it is completely noiseless. I also use it during video meetings where I can hold it off camera. Whatever you do, when you are in front of people, don't pick something that makes noise :-) it will annoy almost everyone, but very few people are willing to tell you.
  - _boffin_ 2y ago
    When I do it, it’s always off camera. If I’m in person, depending who I’m around, if it’s close friends, I’ll just take it out and mess around with it. If not close friends, that’s where the fight comes in. I had a professor once who I confessed to that I’ve read a paragraph more than 20 times and I don’t remember any of it, even after I just finished reading it. It was in a subject that didn’t interest me too much, and yeah, since I didn’t care too much about it, it was a damn fight to even sit there and get myself through that paragraph, let alone, remember it as there’s a battle going on in my head for attention. The thing he said to me is something I’ll never forget, and that is, “when you’re going through that material that doesn’t interest you that much or at all, try and find figure out why the author of it found it so interesting. Why did the author spend their time and energy to research and publish this material? Look at it through their eyes and find their interest.” That reframing of how I go about reading has helped me more than almost anything else has. Find ways to cope, reframe, and understand what feelings lead to what levels of inattention, anxiety, frustrations, etc…
jabroni_salad 2y ago
Realistically? 1. Find the copes that get you through the day. 2. Don't tell anyone at work. Ever. You will be seen as unreliable and employers don't need to accommodate the kinds of things adhd does to you. A byproduct of the interview process is that it weeds out people who suck at talking. I took an acting class and that helped me a lot. In the biz we call this Masking.
- BizarreByte 2y ago
  > Find the copes that get you through the day. Adderall for working hours, weed to calm back and destress down after working hours. It can be really difficult to navigate and contort ourselves to a world that has little tolerance for mental differences, but alas we have no choice so copes are critical.
  - water_556 2y ago
    I can't recommend the weed. It will cloud your brain even if used a small amount daily.
- sillycorn 2y ago
  Acting class, for helping with interviews is something I've never heard or read till now. This post is helping me get some diverse perspectives. :)
ark4579 2y ago
i once got into hyper-focus mode and applied for like 300+ positions in few days. luckily, i heard back from one of them and finally got job offer too.
- sillycorn 2y ago
  That's nice. Congrats.
tylerchilds 2y ago
when i did my best rounds of interviewing, i was treating the entire ordeal as a comedy routine. the goal was not just to get the right answer, but also to make the person interviewing me laugh. i took a little longer on the questions, but it is way more beneficial to have a comically correct answer after a few seconds than an immediate one that while profound, was misunderstood by everyone but me. definitely made me be more present in the room than if I'd only been in an interview.
- sillycorn 2y ago
  Interesting technique, I could try this. But Im sure I have to practice a bit, I tend to land some terrible jokes sometimes, that I cringe about to this day XD.
sbecker 2y ago
Sounds like you just need interview practice. (Your post seems more about interview nerves than ADHD issues). It’s a different skill, separate from being a good coder. It’s difficult to tell from your post if you have had any interviews yet. You mention “I've never had a real interview after college”. I would specifically look into getting mock interviews where the stakes are low, and get feedback and practice, so you learn how to improve and gain more confidence. You can ask friends, watch YouTube videos (for ideas, but this is not real practice), go to college career networking events, or search for “interview practice” - there are companies and services that offer this. You can get good at this! Good luck!
greatpostman 2y ago
I have adhd. The only way I can focus, is the keto diet. I encourage you to try a diet of low carb veggies, steak, chicken, nuts, and avocados. It might change your life.
Climato 2y ago
Interviewing can be trained. Start with companies you like but are not your preference. Try to schedule them reasonable spread to have enough time to learn from them but not that you have to keep them waiting for too long on an answer.
hartator 2y ago
Send me your resume julien _at_ serpapi.com. We specialize in hiring people on the spectrum. All our workflows are async, remote-first, transparent-first, in a written format, and don't have a deadline unless absolutely needed. We are almost all - including myself - on the spectrum, and minimize team meetings to 1 per week, allow only 1:1s outside of that, and trust everyone to priotzit their own work outside of tasks assigned specifically to one person.
- choult 2y ago
  Do you have any articles etc. about how you have put together your processss and practices? I'd love to learn more, and adopt them when I scale my own company.
  - hartator 2y ago
    It’s in my to do list!
phuff 2y ago
ADHD (and many other psychological struggles) can be managed with practice and good habits and time. You seem to have a desire to change (evidenced by posting here) which is a great signal you are in a place to make changes in life. If you want, you can learn now how to make changes in your life to work with your ADHD and learn to manage it's effects, thereby being more successful than you would have been leaving it undiagnosed and poorly understood. This is a great position to be in! You know are in a position to learn the skills you need to manage the ADHD. Additionally, you seem to have diagnosed yourself as having a skill deficit with interviewing. This is also a great position to be in. If you want to work on interviewing, which based on your message it sounds like is your weak skill, then invest time (and maybe money) in practicing that skill with the added understanding you have (and skills you are building) about your managing your ADHD. One way to think about this is to treat interviewing as a separate skill set; there really are lots of online resources that teach you to interview these days. Practice interviewing as a separate skill set. You can invest in this skill with money; leetcode and other sites really package this as a service. The benefit to you is not that they will grant you a job offer; it's that they will grant you the opportunity to practice in low stakes environments. There are also places online that are pairing people for interview practice. You can also reach out to people you have worked with previously and say: I want to practice interviewing; would you spend 30 minutes with me doing a mock interview? People love to help each other. At the same time continue to invest in managing and understanding your ADHD by working with professionals to develop those skills. Combine the two and some time and you can do this. You'll get this. Hang in there! Feel free to email me if you would like to talk more.
Log_out_ 2y ago
Lie. Religious caste placation positions are not permanent.
dahart 2y ago
You’ve already discovered that referrals are a great way to get work, with a side-benefit sometimes that the interviews matter less if not get used less, or if you’re lucky, not at all. If there any people from past jobs who like you and know your work, reach out to them and see if they are aware of any jobs who need someone with your skills. Do spend a little time researching the company’s interview process. Some companies have live coding interviews and/or take-home coding and put more emphasis on those. I completely blew an interview once on databases, only to still get the offer because I aced the live coding. The live coding “interview” was me being left alone in a room for an hour to write a small text-based game after being handed the game rules. Lots of people have different ADHD coping mechanisms and different things that help them and varied kinds of self-tricks and results. Could it help you during an interview if you thought about it as you testing them instead of them testing you? Maybe having a goal to collect information you want about the job and the people you’d work with could help with focus? Also remember that asking questions uses up interview time, can give you valuable information, and shows both curiosity and initiative. Be polite and conversational of course, but ask as many questions as you can! ;)
richrichie 2y ago
I am not sure ADHD is such a handicap since you could make an argument that most people in the tech industry are on the autism spectrum. Only small percentage of them can communicate well with proper eye contact. Perhaps take a break and work on a job that helps you build soft skills?
water_556 2y ago
Dude get on meds (stims) immediately. They make meds for this and they are highly effective. Your addiction fears are unfounded. https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence

33 points by sillycorn 2y ago

cranberryturkey 2y ago

the entire job market for tech is in a large bust cycle and the internview process is a complete shit show. until these two processes improve I don't know. I'm 49 with 25+ years of experience and haven't worked since august.

odyssey7 2y ago
I’ve been checking layoffs.fyi. Maybe it’s turned a corner but it’s hard to say.
tndibona 2y ago
I’m not far behind with work ex since 2008. I still have my current job which pays well but I’m going to start looking around because I’m moving closer to nyc. Why’d you say the process is a shit show ? Asking to prepare that’s all.
- cranberryturkey 2y ago
  4 rounds of tech screens when a simple call will suffice.
richrichie 2y ago
Hear you. 49 is also a tricky age, considered too old. I am about the same age have faced challenges finding work since covid19 layoffs.

gedy 2y ago

Look for companies that do take home coding exercise (projects, not hackerrank quizzes) instead of the leetcode whiteboard stuff. Those tend to focus on quality of work vs verbal timed quizzes, which many good engineers aren't good at. The verbal, in-person stuff tends to favor good-sounding and good-looking people, and awkward types are at a disadvantage to begin with.

sillycorn 2y ago
This is a good advice. I will try this. Thanks.
tndibona 2y ago
This is good advice considering the author says that he tends to mess up interviews by blurting stuff. Leetcode based timed quizzes inevitably optimize for memory recollection i.e if you seen a similar problem from the pool of problems. Trying to balance a binary tree under a 15 minute timer just proves that you’re a puzzle solver and not problem solver. Take a coding exercise to solve at home. Is there a way to filter companies that choose this approach ? Seems like all the top tech jobs require the leetcode method.

pavel_lishin 2y ago

> I visited a psychiatrist recently and was diagnosed with ADHD. Were you prescribed any medication? Just getting a diagnosis is good, and learning some tools to help you cope is great, but honestly medication has done wonders for me when I was taking it. (I'm not going to say which specific one, because I'm not a doctor, and what worked for me may not work for you.) > And job market has not been so good unless I get enrolled in shady consultancies, which I don't want to. What sort of shadiness are you talking about? If they're just crappy build-out-six-CRUD-apps-a-week shops, but their paychecks don't bounce... well, rent doesn't pay itself, you know? On the other hand, if they're doing something explicitly immoral or illegal, then yeah, avoid those.

sillycorn 2y ago
> Were you prescribed any medication. Yes I'm hesitant to it because. Im worried about developinand addiction to it. If you wouldn't mind sharing some insight from your experience how is it. > What sort of shadiness are you talking about? Lying about my VISA status, experience etc.
- replwoacause 2y ago
  I've been taking ADHD medications for 15 years, off and on, and have never developed any dependencies. You may have to experiment a little bit to find the right medication and dosage, but I don't think developing an "addiction" should be a big concern for you. Ask your provider for the lowest therapeutic dose and stick with that for as long as you can. For example, I take 27mg of Concerta (a low-dose of long acting Ritalin) and I barely notice it, except for at the end of the day, I'm like "damn, I just cranked out 6 hours of uninterrupted productive work". If you are genuinely ADHD, it will feel like putting on a pair of corrective lenses for your mind, it's not going to feel like getting high.
  - sillycorn 2y ago
    Thank you for your advice, I will discuss with my provider about this.
- 2y ago

_boffin_ 2y ago

Fight yourself. Fight yourself all day as the world doesn’t revolve around you. Learn how to compensate for tote issues. Do t change up everything, but learn to communicate. Carry something to fidget with that allows your hand to move as much as needed which then allows the body to be a little bit calmer and focused. I carry a satin sash everywhere that I constantly play with. Always out of sight, but I’m playing with it. It allows me to take some of that energy and spend it there while I fight myself to pay attention. You’ve stated issues you have focusing on the interview. Work on those. Go get purposely bored and work on those skills. It’s not fun. It sucks. But you’re not going to change until the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.

sillycorn 2y ago
I tried using some fiddling stuff in past around people, it seems to annoy them. But yeah, having this diagnosis was a relief in a way, it answered the unknown to me. I'm still learning on how to cope with it, but definitely some helpful suggestions thanks.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Yeah, the annoyance to others is a big thing. I've had success getting stuff that is quiet and sits in my pocket. If you search on Amazon for ADHD fidget toys for adults, you'll find quite a few options. The one that works the best for me, is a little brass cube that has gears on each side. You can spin the gears easily in your pocket without looking , and it is completely noiseless. I also use it during video meetings where I can hold it off camera. Whatever you do, when you are in front of people, don't pick something that makes noise :-) it will annoy almost everyone, but very few people are willing to tell you.
- _boffin_ 2y ago
  When I do it, it’s always off camera. If I’m in person, depending who I’m around, if it’s close friends, I’ll just take it out and mess around with it. If not close friends, that’s where the fight comes in. I had a professor once who I confessed to that I’ve read a paragraph more than 20 times and I don’t remember any of it, even after I just finished reading it. It was in a subject that didn’t interest me too much, and yeah, since I didn’t care too much about it, it was a damn fight to even sit there and get myself through that paragraph, let alone, remember it as there’s a battle going on in my head for attention. The thing he said to me is something I’ll never forget, and that is, “when you’re going through that material that doesn’t interest you that much or at all, try and find figure out why the author of it found it so interesting. Why did the author spend their time and energy to research and publish this material? Look at it through their eyes and find their interest.” That reframing of how I go about reading has helped me more than almost anything else has. Find ways to cope, reframe, and understand what feelings lead to what levels of inattention, anxiety, frustrations, etc…

jabroni_salad 2y ago

Realistically? 1. Find the copes that get you through the day. 2. Don't tell anyone at work. Ever. You will be seen as unreliable and employers don't need to accommodate the kinds of things adhd does to you. A byproduct of the interview process is that it weeds out people who suck at talking. I took an acting class and that helped me a lot. In the biz we call this Masking.

BizarreByte 2y ago
> Find the copes that get you through the day. Adderall for working hours, weed to calm back and destress down after working hours. It can be really difficult to navigate and contort ourselves to a world that has little tolerance for mental differences, but alas we have no choice so copes are critical.
- water_556 2y ago
  I can't recommend the weed. It will cloud your brain even if used a small amount daily.
sillycorn 2y ago
Acting class, for helping with interviews is something I've never heard or read till now. This post is helping me get some diverse perspectives. :)

ark4579 2y ago

i once got into hyper-focus mode and applied for like 300+ positions in few days. luckily, i heard back from one of them and finally got job offer too.

sillycorn 2y ago
That's nice. Congrats.

tylerchilds 2y ago

when i did my best rounds of interviewing, i was treating the entire ordeal as a comedy routine. the goal was not just to get the right answer, but also to make the person interviewing me laugh. i took a little longer on the questions, but it is way more beneficial to have a comically correct answer after a few seconds than an immediate one that while profound, was misunderstood by everyone but me. definitely made me be more present in the room than if I'd only been in an interview.

sillycorn 2y ago
Interesting technique, I could try this. But Im sure I have to practice a bit, I tend to land some terrible jokes sometimes, that I cringe about to this day XD.

sbecker 2y ago

Sounds like you just need interview practice. (Your post seems more about interview nerves than ADHD issues). It’s a different skill, separate from being a good coder. It’s difficult to tell from your post if you have had any interviews yet. You mention “I've never had a real interview after college”. I would specifically look into getting mock interviews where the stakes are low, and get feedback and practice, so you learn how to improve and gain more confidence. You can ask friends, watch YouTube videos (for ideas, but this is not real practice), go to college career networking events, or search for “interview practice” - there are companies and services that offer this. You can get good at this! Good luck!

greatpostman 2y ago

I have adhd. The only way I can focus, is the keto diet. I encourage you to try a diet of low carb veggies, steak, chicken, nuts, and avocados. It might change your life.

Climato 2y ago

Interviewing can be trained. Start with companies you like but are not your preference. Try to schedule them reasonable spread to have enough time to learn from them but not that you have to keep them waiting for too long on an answer.

hartator 2y ago

Send me your resume julien _at_ serpapi.com. We specialize in hiring people on the spectrum. All our workflows are async, remote-first, transparent-first, in a written format, and don't have a deadline unless absolutely needed. We are almost all - including myself - on the spectrum, and minimize team meetings to 1 per week, allow only 1:1s outside of that, and trust everyone to priotzit their own work outside of tasks assigned specifically to one person.

choult 2y ago
Do you have any articles etc. about how you have put together your processss and practices? I'd love to learn more, and adopt them when I scale my own company.
- hartator 2y ago
  It’s in my to do list!

phuff 2y ago

ADHD (and many other psychological struggles) can be managed with practice and good habits and time. You seem to have a desire to change (evidenced by posting here) which is a great signal you are in a place to make changes in life. If you want, you can learn now how to make changes in your life to work with your ADHD and learn to manage it's effects, thereby being more successful than you would have been leaving it undiagnosed and poorly understood. This is a great position to be in! You know are in a position to learn the skills you need to manage the ADHD. Additionally, you seem to have diagnosed yourself as having a skill deficit with interviewing. This is also a great position to be in. If you want to work on interviewing, which based on your message it sounds like is your weak skill, then invest time (and maybe money) in practicing that skill with the added understanding you have (and skills you are building) about your managing your ADHD. One way to think about this is to treat interviewing as a separate skill set; there really are lots of online resources that teach you to interview these days. Practice interviewing as a separate skill set. You can invest in this skill with money; leetcode and other sites really package this as a service. The benefit to you is not that they will grant you a job offer; it's that they will grant you the opportunity to practice in low stakes environments. There are also places online that are pairing people for interview practice. You can also reach out to people you have worked with previously and say: I want to practice interviewing; would you spend 30 minutes with me doing a mock interview? People love to help each other. At the same time continue to invest in managing and understanding your ADHD by working with professionals to develop those skills. Combine the two and some time and you can do this. You'll get this. Hang in there! Feel free to email me if you would like to talk more.

Log_out_ 2y ago

Lie. Religious caste placation positions are not permanent.

dahart 2y ago

You’ve already discovered that referrals are a great way to get work, with a side-benefit sometimes that the interviews matter less if not get used less, or if you’re lucky, not at all. If there any people from past jobs who like you and know your work, reach out to them and see if they are aware of any jobs who need someone with your skills. Do spend a little time researching the company’s interview process. Some companies have live coding interviews and/or take-home coding and put more emphasis on those. I completely blew an interview once on databases, only to still get the offer because I aced the live coding. The live coding “interview” was me being left alone in a room for an hour to write a small text-based game after being handed the game rules. Lots of people have different ADHD coping mechanisms and different things that help them and varied kinds of self-tricks and results. Could it help you during an interview if you thought about it as you testing them instead of them testing you? Maybe having a goal to collect information you want about the job and the people you’d work with could help with focus? Also remember that asking questions uses up interview time, can give you valuable information, and shows both curiosity and initiative. Be polite and conversational of course, but ask as many questions as you can! ;)

richrichie 2y ago

I am not sure ADHD is such a handicap since you could make an argument that most people in the tech industry are on the autism spectrum. Only small percentage of them can communicate well with proper eye contact. Perhaps take a break and work on a job that helps you build soft skills?

water_556 2y ago

Dude get on meds (stims) immediately. They make meds for this and they are highly effective. Your addiction fears are unfounded. https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence