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>Given that ASUS has one of the worst software support commitments in the Android world [...] It started removing posts about bootloader unlocking in its ZenTal

>Given that ASUS has one of the worst software support commitments in the Android world [...] It started removing posts about bootloader unlocking in its ZenTalk forums. Which is why I never understood why Asus Zenfone kept being recommended on HN all the time when people asked for good android phones to buy. I thought this community appreciated long SW support. I think the people recommending it were not dogfooding it. Why not go for something that has 5-7 years of SW updates like a Pixel or a S-series? The Zenfone wasn't any cheaper than those either(at least in EU) so you were also getting a poor value for money.

esalman 3y ago
Tbh I don't share the sentiment that the community appreciates long SW support. Otherwise we'd see Windows being recommended over Linux more often.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  This is more about device support for updated OS, which any PC does. Especially with Linux, unlike Windows 11 that can't be installed on older PCs without some hacks.
- jethro_tell 3y ago
  Lol, I guess Linux did just drop 386 and 486 a couple years ago.
- HansHamster 3y ago
  You mean Microsoft Windows which dropped support for Zen 1 with Win11 not even 5 years after Zen 1 was released? Meanwhile, Linux will still run on a 30+ year old CPU...
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    Isn't Windows 10 still supported?
    - shepherdjerred 3y ago
      I looked into it. Consumer installs of Windows 10 have updates until 2025. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10#Support_lifecycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10#Support_lifecycle
  - skinner927 3y ago
    They said software support, not hardware support. You can take a win 95 gui app and run it on windows 10 without issue. You can’t do the same on Linux.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      Pretty much. For the sake of nostalgia, I downloaded an Encarta 2000 ISO form Internet Archive, then spun up a Windows 98 VM to run it on but that VM had a lot of sound issues in Virtual Box, then I realized that Encarta would also run just fine installed on Windows 11 lol. This kind of backwards compatibility is not something I need on a daily basis but it's pretty neat that I can just run very old SW on my main OS without fiddling with VMs.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      In context, it looks like they meant software updates, which is closer to what your calling hardware support.
    - yndoendo 3y ago
      This is not 100% true. Some legacy Windows software does not run on current Windows. Never got Slave Zero running on Windows XP or Windows 2000 after upgrading from Windows 98 & ME. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Zero
    - gpm 3y ago
- dns_snek 3y ago
  It's really not the same kind of support. We get plenty of active support and development in the Linux world, and open source more broadly. Windows only offers essential life support, trying to ensure that something written 20 years ago still runs today, despite being completely abandoned for 19 years with no reasonable way of fixing it.
jsheard 3y ago
The Zenfones mainly carved out a following because they're the smallest flagship-tier Android phones on the market. Asus has terrible support, but if you want a small-ish device there isn't a great deal of choice nowadays.
- as1mov 3y ago
  Indeed, today if you want a phone that isn't gigantic the options are really limited. Zenfone also had benefit of being quite sturdy since the back wasn't made from glass/metal, so you can go without a protective case. I have dropped mine a couple of times, but it hasn't suffered any damage until now.
  - yxhuvud 3y ago
    You can go without protective shell, but it is so slippery you want one just to avoid airborne phones.
- mablopoule 3y ago
  Also, it's one of the rare remaining flagship-tier phone who still allows headphone jack, which is the main reason why I bought a Zenfone last year.
- praisewhitey 3y ago
  >they're the smallest flagship-tier Android phones They're the same size as the Galaxy S series https://phonesized.com/compare/#2261,2398 https://phonesized.com/compare/#2261,2398
  - Audiophilip 3y ago
    Does the Galaxy S series have headphone jacks as well?
    - magnio 3y ago
      No, but can't you use a USB-C earphone?
as1mov 3y ago
Asus allowed bootloader unlock up until a few months ago, which is why I bought the device, i.e even if the company abandons it I can just unlock the bootloader and slap on LineageOS on it. Seems like a mistake now. > Why not go for something that has 5-7 years of SW updates like a Pixel or a S-series? The Zenfone wasn't any cheaper than those either(at least in EU) so you were also getting a poor value for money. SW updates aren't the only criteria when choosing a device, if you're looking for a small phone with a headphone jack and a non-glass/metal back, the number of options are very limited (iirc, Zenfone 9 is literally the only phone which satisfies the constraints).
Hendrikto 3y ago
> Why not go for something that has 5-7 years of SW updates like a Pixel or a S-series? Or an iPhone. People love to hate on Apple, but they actually support their devices.
- luuurker 3y ago
  On top of the iOS restrictions vs Android, an iPhone comes with a set of constraints that the type of user that cares about bootloader unlocking doesn't want to deal with. From apps that are not on the store to custom ROMs that have features that the stock OS doesn't have... iPhones are terrible for this. iPhones are good, but in this case it's a bit like recommending a Chromebook to someone that is used to build their own computers and runs linux.
sfmike 3y ago
what good is SW updates on a pixel that can't even get cellular connectivity
deleted 3y ago
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cbarrick 3y ago
Honestly, I switched from Pixel to Zenfone for the form factor. Ever since the visor redesign with the Pixel 6, the Pixel series has been too big for my hands. I do miss the great Pixel software though...
- pohuing 3y ago
  Same thing here. Zenfone android is similar to pixel android while I find Samsung's android insanely ugly. I just miss some of the Google app integrations
  - cbarrick 3y ago
    We'll, TIL that the Zenfone 11 is now a big phone. So I guess I'm going back to Pixel whenever I buy my next phone. https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Asus-Zenfone-10,Asus-Zenfone-11-Ultra/phones/12162,12312 https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Asus-Zenfone-10,Asus-...

esalman 3y ago

Tbh I don't share the sentiment that the community appreciates long SW support. Otherwise we'd see Windows being recommended over Linux more often.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throwaway11460 3y ago
This is more about device support for updated OS, which any PC does. Especially with Linux, unlike Windows 11 that can't be installed on older PCs without some hacks.
jethro_tell 3y ago
Lol, I guess Linux did just drop 386 and 486 a couple years ago.
HansHamster 3y ago
You mean Microsoft Windows which dropped support for Zen 1 with Win11 not even 5 years after Zen 1 was released? Meanwhile, Linux will still run on a 30+ year old CPU...
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  Isn't Windows 10 still supported?
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    I looked into it. Consumer installs of Windows 10 have updates until 2025. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10#Support_lifecycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10#Support_lifecycle
- skinner927 3y ago
  They said software support, not hardware support. You can take a win 95 gui app and run it on windows 10 without issue. You can’t do the same on Linux.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Pretty much. For the sake of nostalgia, I downloaded an Encarta 2000 ISO form Internet Archive, then spun up a Windows 98 VM to run it on but that VM had a lot of sound issues in Virtual Box, then I realized that Encarta would also run just fine installed on Windows 11 lol. This kind of backwards compatibility is not something I need on a daily basis but it's pretty neat that I can just run very old SW on my main OS without fiddling with VMs.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    In context, it looks like they meant software updates, which is closer to what your calling hardware support.
  - yndoendo 3y ago
    This is not 100% true. Some legacy Windows software does not run on current Windows. Never got Slave Zero running on Windows XP or Windows 2000 after upgrading from Windows 98 & ME. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Zero
  - gpm 3y ago
dns_snek 3y ago
It's really not the same kind of support. We get plenty of active support and development in the Linux world, and open source more broadly. Windows only offers essential life support, trying to ensure that something written 20 years ago still runs today, despite being completely abandoned for 19 years with no reasonable way of fixing it.

jsheard 3y ago

The Zenfones mainly carved out a following because they're the smallest flagship-tier Android phones on the market. Asus has terrible support, but if you want a small-ish device there isn't a great deal of choice nowadays.

as1mov 3y ago
Indeed, today if you want a phone that isn't gigantic the options are really limited. Zenfone also had benefit of being quite sturdy since the back wasn't made from glass/metal, so you can go without a protective case. I have dropped mine a couple of times, but it hasn't suffered any damage until now.
- yxhuvud 3y ago
  You can go without protective shell, but it is so slippery you want one just to avoid airborne phones.
mablopoule 3y ago
Also, it's one of the rare remaining flagship-tier phone who still allows headphone jack, which is the main reason why I bought a Zenfone last year.
praisewhitey 3y ago
>they're the smallest flagship-tier Android phones They're the same size as the Galaxy S series https://phonesized.com/compare/#2261,2398 https://phonesized.com/compare/#2261,2398
- Audiophilip 3y ago
  Does the Galaxy S series have headphone jacks as well?
  - magnio 3y ago
    No, but can't you use a USB-C earphone?

as1mov 3y ago

Asus allowed bootloader unlock up until a few months ago, which is why I bought the device, i.e even if the company abandons it I can just unlock the bootloader and slap on LineageOS on it. Seems like a mistake now. > Why not go for something that has 5-7 years of SW updates like a Pixel or a S-series? The Zenfone wasn't any cheaper than those either(at least in EU) so you were also getting a poor value for money. SW updates aren't the only criteria when choosing a device, if you're looking for a small phone with a headphone jack and a non-glass/metal back, the number of options are very limited (iirc, Zenfone 9 is literally the only phone which satisfies the constraints).

Hendrikto 3y ago

> Why not go for something that has 5-7 years of SW updates like a Pixel or a S-series? Or an iPhone. People love to hate on Apple, but they actually support their devices.

luuurker 3y ago
On top of the iOS restrictions vs Android, an iPhone comes with a set of constraints that the type of user that cares about bootloader unlocking doesn't want to deal with. From apps that are not on the store to custom ROMs that have features that the stock OS doesn't have... iPhones are terrible for this. iPhones are good, but in this case it's a bit like recommending a Chromebook to someone that is used to build their own computers and runs linux.

sfmike 3y ago

what good is SW updates on a pixel that can't even get cellular connectivity

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cbarrick 3y ago

Honestly, I switched from Pixel to Zenfone for the form factor. Ever since the visor redesign with the Pixel 6, the Pixel series has been too big for my hands. I do miss the great Pixel software though...

pohuing 3y ago
Same thing here. Zenfone android is similar to pixel android while I find Samsung's android insanely ugly. I just miss some of the Google app integrations
- cbarrick 3y ago
  We'll, TIL that the Zenfone 11 is now a big phone. So I guess I'm going back to Pixel whenever I buy my next phone. https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Asus-Zenfone-10,Asus-Zenfone-11-Ultra/phones/12162,12312 https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Asus-Zenfone-10,Asus-...