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That's not the "Jews" my friend. That's all humans, ever, forming a mob, calling for the death of an innocent man, or woman, because he bothered them or their l

That's not the "Jews" my friend. That's all humans, ever, forming a mob, calling for the death of an innocent man, or woman, because he bothered them or their leaders. In the Gospels, only John names the crowd as "Judeans". Mark, Matthew and Luke call them "the crowd", "the mob", or "the people". The people, who were, of course, Judeans, but then remember that so was Jesus, and so where the evangelists, and the other followers of Jesus. John 18:38 -> Λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Πιλᾶτος “Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια;” Καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν πάλιν ἐξῆλθεν πρὸς τοὺς Ἰουδαίους, καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς “Ἐγὼ οὐδεμίαν εὑρίσκω ἐν αὐτῷ αἰτίαν. [Pilate says to him "what is truth?". And having said that he came out again towards the Judeans and says to them "I find no cause in him" ("no cause" meaning: to punish him) .] https://biblehub.com/texts/john/18-38.htm https://biblehub.com/texts/john/18-38.htm Luke 23:18 -> Ἀνέκραγον δὲ παμπληθεὶ* λέγοντες “Αἶρε τοῦτον, ἀπόλυσον δὲ ἡμῖν τὸν Βαραββᾶν·” [And the crowd as one cried saying "Take him, and give us Barabbas".] https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/23-18.htm https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/23-18.htm Mark 15:11 -> Οἱ δὲ ἀρχιερεῖς ἀνέσεισαν τὸν ὄχλον ἵνα μᾶλλον τὸν Βαραββᾶν ἀπολύσῃ αὐτοῖς. [As to the high priests they spurred the mob so that he would rather give back Barabbas to them.] https://biblehub.com/texts/mark/15-11.htm https://biblehub.com/texts/mark/15-11.htm Matthew 27:25 -> Καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς πᾶς ὁ λαὸς εἶπεν “Τὸ αἷμα αὐτοῦ ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ἡμῶν.” [And in reply the whole people said "His blood on us and on our children".] https://biblehub.com/texts/matthew/27-25.htm https://biblehub.com/texts/matthew/27-25.htm All of which of course has been interpreted in Christian tradition as "the Jews crucified Christ", and most likely formed the basis for European anti-semitism; the original, and true, anti-semitism. And having read the Gospels it's clear what Jesus himself would have thought of such traditions; how royally pissed off he would have been knowing the hatred that was roused in his name.

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explaininjs 3y ago
You're projecting hatred into a simple historical account, re-evaluate your biases. The sources you think are helping your point are not, BTW. Which is as one would expect, given your point is basically: "This crowd of people referred to once as Jews, who lived where Jews lived and were interested in the teachings of a Jew who was at that point only talking to Jews and had strong objections to that Jew implying he might be their Jewish-prophesize messiah, those guys? Yeah, that crowd? There's no evidence they were Jews". It's on its face ridiculous, even more with the "evidence" you provide. > he came out again towards the Judeans and says... Yes, exactly. > the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed > the high priests they spurred the mob Do you think the very small amount of non-Jewish Romans in the area would be interested in the spurring of the Jewish priests and elders? There's nothing anti-semetic about understanding a historical event as it happened. Do you also think calling for ceasefire in Palestine is also anti-semetic? I have no ill-will against Jews, I love them as I love all my neighbors. That means I'd stop and provide one food and lodging if I saw they were in need, but I'd share the gospel with them and ask them to repent and join the Kingdom while I was at it. Just as the Lord instructed.
- explaininjs 3y ago
  Also, I fear you do not really understand anything the Bible really says – despite your love for the Greek – if you think European "anti-semitism" (a phrase invented by the nazis to "scientificize" their hatred which we should not continue to use, but I digress) is the original (and "truest", whatever that means) form of anti-Jewish sentiment. The Jews have been characterized as an ostracized, even enslaved, people from the absolute beginning (Book 2, at minimum) – well before the concept of "Europe" even existed. And most certainly well before humanity knew of Jesus.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
    >> You're projecting hatred into a simple historical account, re-evaluate your biases. You misunderstand. I didn't accuse you of antisemitism. The point is that neither the evangelists, nor certainly Christ, intended the Jews to be blamed for his crucifixion; οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν. But, as we say in Greek, my maternal language, όποιος έχει τη μύγα, μυγιάζεται.
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      I provided the script, you assigned the blame. If you were to have asked me instead of asserted at me, I'd have said there is no human blame to be placed. The Word took on human form specifically to fulfill the role of the sinless martyr and win over satan, and so He did. I've heard speculation of demons in the midst of the crowd responsible for guiding the mob, that seems plausible but I do not know of a strong scriptural argument in favor of it. None of that is to say that it is in any way inaccurate to attribute the words of the Jews to the Jews. This idea that we need to reshape history at every turn in order to not be interpreted as "anti-semeitic" needs to perish.

deleted 3y ago

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explaininjs 3y ago

You're projecting hatred into a simple historical account, re-evaluate your biases. The sources you think are helping your point are not, BTW. Which is as one would expect, given your point is basically: "This crowd of people referred to once as Jews, who lived where Jews lived and were interested in the teachings of a Jew who was at that point only talking to Jews and had strong objections to that Jew implying he might be their Jewish-prophesize messiah, those guys? Yeah, that crowd? There's no evidence they were Jews". It's on its face ridiculous, even more with the "evidence" you provide. > he came out again towards the Judeans and says... Yes, exactly. > the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed > the high priests they spurred the mob Do you think the very small amount of non-Jewish Romans in the area would be interested in the spurring of the Jewish priests and elders? There's nothing anti-semetic about understanding a historical event as it happened. Do you also think calling for ceasefire in Palestine is also anti-semetic? I have no ill-will against Jews, I love them as I love all my neighbors. That means I'd stop and provide one food and lodging if I saw they were in need, but I'd share the gospel with them and ask them to repent and join the Kingdom while I was at it. Just as the Lord instructed.

explaininjs 3y ago
Also, I fear you do not really understand anything the Bible really says – despite your love for the Greek – if you think European "anti-semitism" (a phrase invented by the nazis to "scientificize" their hatred which we should not continue to use, but I digress) is the original (and "truest", whatever that means) form of anti-Jewish sentiment. The Jews have been characterized as an ostracized, even enslaved, people from the absolute beginning (Book 2, at minimum) – well before the concept of "Europe" even existed. And most certainly well before humanity knew of Jesus.
- YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
  >> You're projecting hatred into a simple historical account, re-evaluate your biases. You misunderstand. I didn't accuse you of antisemitism. The point is that neither the evangelists, nor certainly Christ, intended the Jews to be blamed for his crucifixion; οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν. But, as we say in Greek, my maternal language, όποιος έχει τη μύγα, μυγιάζεται.
  - explaininjs 3y ago
    I provided the script, you assigned the blame. If you were to have asked me instead of asserted at me, I'd have said there is no human blame to be placed. The Word took on human form specifically to fulfill the role of the sinless martyr and win over satan, and so He did. I've heard speculation of demons in the midst of the crowd responsible for guiding the mob, that seems plausible but I do not know of a strong scriptural argument in favor of it. None of that is to say that it is in any way inaccurate to attribute the words of the Jews to the Jews. This idea that we need to reshape history at every turn in order to not be interpreted as "anti-semeitic" needs to perish.