5 ms·

It's because the Windows 11 UI was designed by people who've never used anything other that an Apple Mac. Yes, Microsoft hires employees with zero Windows expe

It's because the Windows 11 UI was designed by people who've never used anything other that an Apple Mac. Yes, Microsoft hires employees with zero Windows experience to design their operating system. That's why the Windows 11 taskbar has the icons centred -- because Apple OSX does too. That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either. Etc...

supernes 3y ago
You can move the Dock to the side of the screen and in fact many people do. What's the excuse for not copying that functionality?
- out-of-ideas 3y ago
  this assumes the programmer knows how to change app settings; ive seen many a great programmers know quite little about the actual apps they install (or comes with) and use; dont even get me started about folks who "program" but simply just edit a file and dont use the actual app to test things (and instead rely on build-systems) - strange i must say, but it happens so much im not surprised by it, just forever saddened
  - supernes 3y ago
    I've seen my share of horror stories, but I'm also the type of idealist that believes the people whom a $3T corporation hires to work on one of its core products would know better. It's more than likely that ultimately the decision was not in the hands of a technical (or seemingly even a computer literate) person.
hurril 3y ago
My Apple Mac OSX taskbar (sic) is to the left on my screen. Auto-hidden. Just like I keep my taskbar on my Windows-box.
- sircastor 3y ago
  Mine’s to the right. Also auto hidden.
pacifika 3y ago
I thought it was centered to better support ultra widescreen users
- Narishma 3y ago
  So they make it worse for everyone else to support a minority of users?
crimsontech 3y ago
> That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either. It does though. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1119/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1119/mac
Ringz 3y ago
Apple allows to drag the taskbar “around”. Mine auto hides away, since I barely use it (I try to use the mouse as little as possible).
userbinator 3y ago
You're being downvoted on only 1/4 of the points you made, but the other 3/4 is true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  I've always been fascinated by forum up/down voting patterns. It's a lens onto human group behaviour. I've said things that are totally wrong and been voted up, and said things that are essentially correct except for some tiny detail and been voted down into oblivion. What especially gets people riled up is if there's an element of tribalism involved. Can be anything: text editors, political party, operating system, programming language, or whatever. You don't even have to be pro/anti any specific tribe. Just mentioning anything to do with such a topic gets people worked up and angry even if your point is strictly neutral or objective. It's always fun to watch this play out in the microcosm of some obscure topic...
probably_jesus 3y ago
Apple and Microsoft are competing on who can make the worst UX in the desktop arena. Window management is so bad in osx and I refuse to pay for add-ons to make things slightly better when Linux and the small galaxy of window managers have been doing it so well, and for free, for literally decades.
- philistine 3y ago
  Are you always using full screen apps? If you are, yeah it’s bad. If you got a big enough screen, know the shortcuts, and you are not using full screen apps, macOS is untouchable.
- finaard 3y ago
  I recently got a m3 macbook pro (mainly because the general notebook market has been shit for a decade now, I needed to replace my more than a decade old one, and there's pretty much nothing apart from apple which is relatively small, has long battery life, a shitload of RAM and a powerful CPU). Once there's Linux support for M3 I'll probably switch (have an M1 macbook air with Linux which is doing well) - until then I got things close enough to my Linux Hyprland setup with yabai that it is relatively painfree to use.
true_religion 3y ago
Designers don’t make things based on their experience with the product. They do research, evaluate multiple variations, get buy in from stakeholders and then AB test the final result. It’s definitely not as simple as let’s do this because I saw it somewhere before.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  Icons in the middle of a task bar is objectively, measurably less user-friendly than left aligned icons. With the standard Windows layout users can develop “muscle memory”, especially for the bottom left corner of the screen — which is very easy to hit with a mouse because the edges of the screen “trap” the cursor. With middle aligned icons, every new app shifts the existing icons. Also there is no icon in an easy to hit location. Windows 11 has some other design elements that broke Microsoft’s own integrations. As a random example: “Open with VS Code” and “Terminal here” are hidden submenus now.

supernes 3y ago

You can move the Dock to the side of the screen and in fact many people do. What's the excuse for not copying that functionality?

out-of-ideas 3y ago
this assumes the programmer knows how to change app settings; ive seen many a great programmers know quite little about the actual apps they install (or comes with) and use; dont even get me started about folks who "program" but simply just edit a file and dont use the actual app to test things (and instead rely on build-systems) - strange i must say, but it happens so much im not surprised by it, just forever saddened
- supernes 3y ago
  I've seen my share of horror stories, but I'm also the type of idealist that believes the people whom a $3T corporation hires to work on one of its core products would know better. It's more than likely that ultimately the decision was not in the hands of a technical (or seemingly even a computer literate) person.

hurril 3y ago

My Apple Mac OSX taskbar (sic) is to the left on my screen. Auto-hidden. Just like I keep my taskbar on my Windows-box.

sircastor 3y ago
Mine’s to the right. Also auto hidden.

pacifika 3y ago

I thought it was centered to better support ultra widescreen users

Narishma 3y ago
So they make it worse for everyone else to support a minority of users?

crimsontech 3y ago

> That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either. It does though. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1119/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1119/mac

Ringz 3y ago

Apple allows to drag the taskbar “around”. Mine auto hides away, since I barely use it (I try to use the mouse as little as possible).

userbinator 3y ago

You're being downvoted on only 1/4 of the points you made, but the other 3/4 is true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307

jiggawatts 3y ago
I've always been fascinated by forum up/down voting patterns. It's a lens onto human group behaviour. I've said things that are totally wrong and been voted up, and said things that are essentially correct except for some tiny detail and been voted down into oblivion. What especially gets people riled up is if there's an element of tribalism involved. Can be anything: text editors, political party, operating system, programming language, or whatever. You don't even have to be pro/anti any specific tribe. Just mentioning anything to do with such a topic gets people worked up and angry even if your point is strictly neutral or objective. It's always fun to watch this play out in the microcosm of some obscure topic...

probably_jesus 3y ago

Apple and Microsoft are competing on who can make the worst UX in the desktop arena. Window management is so bad in osx and I refuse to pay for add-ons to make things slightly better when Linux and the small galaxy of window managers have been doing it so well, and for free, for literally decades.

philistine 3y ago
Are you always using full screen apps? If you are, yeah it’s bad. If you got a big enough screen, know the shortcuts, and you are not using full screen apps, macOS is untouchable.
finaard 3y ago
I recently got a m3 macbook pro (mainly because the general notebook market has been shit for a decade now, I needed to replace my more than a decade old one, and there's pretty much nothing apart from apple which is relatively small, has long battery life, a shitload of RAM and a powerful CPU). Once there's Linux support for M3 I'll probably switch (have an M1 macbook air with Linux which is doing well) - until then I got things close enough to my Linux Hyprland setup with yabai that it is relatively painfree to use.

true_religion 3y ago

Designers don’t make things based on their experience with the product. They do research, evaluate multiple variations, get buy in from stakeholders and then AB test the final result. It’s definitely not as simple as let’s do this because I saw it somewhere before.

jiggawatts 3y ago
Icons in the middle of a task bar is objectively, measurably less user-friendly than left aligned icons. With the standard Windows layout users can develop “muscle memory”, especially for the bottom left corner of the screen — which is very easy to hit with a mouse because the edges of the screen “trap” the cursor. With middle aligned icons, every new app shifts the existing icons. Also there is no icon in an easy to hit location. Windows 11 has some other design elements that broke Microsoft’s own integrations. As a random example: “Open with VS Code” and “Terminal here” are hidden submenus now.