4 ms·

I was a top 0.1% salesperson nationwide in car sales. I read a bunch of lean startup stuff, learned to make a minimum viable product, and then started selling t

I was a top 0.1% salesperson nationwide in car sales. I read a bunch of lean startup stuff, learned to make a minimum viable product, and then started selling to companies with 20-80 employees. I'm likable and good at selling, so I got 34 companies using this garbage I made. It's the worst nightmare ever to keep people motivated to use it, keep fixing things I made as a rookie developer, keep adding or saying no to features. Overall the product isn't really needed, and sorta sucks too. If I was an typical developer trying to pitch a startup idea to businesses, it probably would have never got off the ground and nobody would have wasted any time. Maybe eventually the developer would have landed on an idea so good it had REAL PMF, and made that. But no, instead I sold some garbage and now I'm stuck working on it. There is such a thing as being too good at sales. You don't want sales talking people into bad ideas.

tomcam 3y ago
Amazing story. Love your honesty. Is there a world where you hire someone to build a more maintainable replacement?
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  It really wouldn't solve the main problem which is that the product itself isn't really needed or that great, code quality aside.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    But it seems like 34 companies would feel differently?
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Or maybe they're a bit disappointed it isn't that great, but who wants to onboard off back to hand made Excel sheets? Or spend time learning another tool. I've got very low churn so I guess it's all fine.
jononor 3y ago
Hehe, reap what you sow :) But - you are not really stuck though. If you have managed to go from 0 to 34 customers before you can do it again. It is totally an option to drop that product and/or startup, and go with a better one (guided by your learnings). Up to you to decide what is the best way forward :)
randomdata 3y ago
> now I'm stuck working on it. Why not put those sales skills to work and sell the business to someone else?
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  Because there's a difference between selling a rough car you detail inside and out and sell for a good deal, versus selling a lemon. Deep down I know the product isn't that well liked, and a lot of the renewals are based on my salesmanship. I know I have a chance at fixing the bugs, because I wrote everything, while someone else would be screwed IMO. It just wouldn't be fair to sell it to someone because I know they'd be making a mistake.
  - codingdave 3y ago
    It sounds like you are underestimating pretty much this entire industry. Picking up codebases that are sketchy and new to us is just part of the job. Finding and fixing bugs is an exercise to get rolling, not an insurmountable challenge. When people keep using software, it is because it solves a problem. They might not like the software but begrudgingly use it anyway because it solves that problem. So sure, pat yourself on the back for good salesmanship, but also realize that they keep using it because even if it is covered in warts, it still does the job.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      While I agree professionals pick up codebases left behind by several iterations of developers, I think picking up a large PHP/Jquery PM tool written by a first time self taught via YouTube and stack overflow developer might be many peoples idea of a bad time. It doesn't really solve a problem. Not really atleast. It's a little better than using 6 Excel sheets via a google drive honestly. The reason it got sold is because in theory it sounds a lot better than Google docs. But it's only a little better. And it has its own host of difficulties (can't modify anything for example.. don't even ask me to add a column or rearrange a table for you). I know it's not great because if I get a company using it, but don't hand hold onboarding to an extreme level, they never even really get going with it. When selling it, if I don't really lay it on thick and do a spectacular job, they don't buy. The reason they don't quit once on it isn't that it solves a great problem or is much better than their previous solution (almost always just Excel sheets), but because switching back to their abandoned system is harder than the $300 a month is worth. So they just keep paying. Also, I've contacted and pitched wayyy more than 34 companies. Many companies are/were smart enough to pass on it. I'm not writing for a sob story or to talk up MY salesmanship for whatever reason, but I wanted to share my main takeaway from this project. When doing lean startup and trying to get your first customers, don't think youve struck gold just because you had a great person schmooze a few people into using your MVP. It can be a false start just based on their persuasion. At this point I'd rather tone down salesmanship a lot and see if I can find a product that really strikes a cord with them instead. Less false starts that way IMO. I'd much rather have gotten 1-2 costumers only, not 34, and realized this isn't worth pursuing.
morpheos137 3y ago
This is hilarious. Can you describe the product or what it does? Is it something to do with payroll, benefits, or HR?
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  Construction project management for a certain segment.
throwaway14356 2y ago
imagine a software buying consultant. You could sell the service to your existing clients. Long ago i made a few html websites for businesses then explained basic html and ftp to the owner. It was perfect except from other webdesign shops hammering my clients.

tomcam 3y ago

Amazing story. Love your honesty. Is there a world where you hire someone to build a more maintainable replacement?

talldatethrow 3y ago
It really wouldn't solve the main problem which is that the product itself isn't really needed or that great, code quality aside.
- tomcam 3y ago
  But it seems like 34 companies would feel differently?
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Or maybe they're a bit disappointed it isn't that great, but who wants to onboard off back to hand made Excel sheets? Or spend time learning another tool. I've got very low churn so I guess it's all fine.

jononor 3y ago

Hehe, reap what you sow :) But - you are not really stuck though. If you have managed to go from 0 to 34 customers before you can do it again. It is totally an option to drop that product and/or startup, and go with a better one (guided by your learnings). Up to you to decide what is the best way forward :)

randomdata 3y ago

> now I'm stuck working on it. Why not put those sales skills to work and sell the business to someone else?

talldatethrow 3y ago
Because there's a difference between selling a rough car you detail inside and out and sell for a good deal, versus selling a lemon. Deep down I know the product isn't that well liked, and a lot of the renewals are based on my salesmanship. I know I have a chance at fixing the bugs, because I wrote everything, while someone else would be screwed IMO. It just wouldn't be fair to sell it to someone because I know they'd be making a mistake.
- codingdave 3y ago
  It sounds like you are underestimating pretty much this entire industry. Picking up codebases that are sketchy and new to us is just part of the job. Finding and fixing bugs is an exercise to get rolling, not an insurmountable challenge. When people keep using software, it is because it solves a problem. They might not like the software but begrudgingly use it anyway because it solves that problem. So sure, pat yourself on the back for good salesmanship, but also realize that they keep using it because even if it is covered in warts, it still does the job.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    While I agree professionals pick up codebases left behind by several iterations of developers, I think picking up a large PHP/Jquery PM tool written by a first time self taught via YouTube and stack overflow developer might be many peoples idea of a bad time. It doesn't really solve a problem. Not really atleast. It's a little better than using 6 Excel sheets via a google drive honestly. The reason it got sold is because in theory it sounds a lot better than Google docs. But it's only a little better. And it has its own host of difficulties (can't modify anything for example.. don't even ask me to add a column or rearrange a table for you). I know it's not great because if I get a company using it, but don't hand hold onboarding to an extreme level, they never even really get going with it. When selling it, if I don't really lay it on thick and do a spectacular job, they don't buy. The reason they don't quit once on it isn't that it solves a great problem or is much better than their previous solution (almost always just Excel sheets), but because switching back to their abandoned system is harder than the $300 a month is worth. So they just keep paying. Also, I've contacted and pitched wayyy more than 34 companies. Many companies are/were smart enough to pass on it. I'm not writing for a sob story or to talk up MY salesmanship for whatever reason, but I wanted to share my main takeaway from this project. When doing lean startup and trying to get your first customers, don't think youve struck gold just because you had a great person schmooze a few people into using your MVP. It can be a false start just based on their persuasion. At this point I'd rather tone down salesmanship a lot and see if I can find a product that really strikes a cord with them instead. Less false starts that way IMO. I'd much rather have gotten 1-2 costumers only, not 34, and realized this isn't worth pursuing.

morpheos137 3y ago

This is hilarious. Can you describe the product or what it does? Is it something to do with payroll, benefits, or HR?

talldatethrow 3y ago
Construction project management for a certain segment.

throwaway14356 2y ago

imagine a software buying consultant. You could sell the service to your existing clients. Long ago i made a few html websites for businesses then explained basic html and ftp to the owner. It was perfect except from other webdesign shops hammering my clients.