3 ms·

OP is not only informed, they're also entirely correct.

by someotherperson 3y ago

29athrowaway 3y ago
OP mixes different centuries that are far removed from the root cause that is correctly identified in the article.
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  > In other words, Islamic civilization did not have a culture hospitable to the advancement of science, while medieval Europe did. That's a quote from the article, not me, to further the parent's point.
  - 29athrowaway 3y ago
    Medieval Europe changed its posture towards science through movements such as Scholasticism. Where does Scholasticism come from? If you trace its origins you will get to Islamic Spain and other Islamic territories. Saint Thomas Aquinas studied under Saint Albert the Great, who was someone who studied translations of books from Islamic libraries produced in Toledo, Spain, as well as works from Jewish scholars such as Maimonides (who also lived in Islamic Spain). Even after these reforms, scientists like Galileo Galilei were prosecuted so the tolerance of science was only up to the point in which it caused discomfort to the Church.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  My point is you can't make a cultural argument about human development, as culture and identity are inherently intersectional and wishy-washy, and cultures change very rapidly. Institutional arguments are easier to test and validate, as there are actual benchmarks you can use. There is too much distance between culture in the 1500s and the 21st century to accurately garner an impact between one or the other. The world has been globalized since the 19th century, and as such all societies have mixed and matched ideas and philosophies. Heck, my great-grandfather - who never lived in a house with electricity until our ancestral village in the high Himalayas was electrified in the 1980s - knew about Hitler and FDR, and vaguely heard about "communism", Wilson's 14 Points (being a village teacher didn't hurt either), and switched from drinking Gurgur Cha made using Gunpowder Tea to Masala Chai using Assam tea after the British lead marketing campaign during the Great Depression.

OP is not only informed, they're also entirely correct.

29athrowaway 3y ago

OP mixes different centuries that are far removed from the root cause that is correctly identified in the article.

throw_m239339 3y ago
> In other words, Islamic civilization did not have a culture hospitable to the advancement of science, while medieval Europe did. That's a quote from the article, not me, to further the parent's point.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  Medieval Europe changed its posture towards science through movements such as Scholasticism. Where does Scholasticism come from? If you trace its origins you will get to Islamic Spain and other Islamic territories. Saint Thomas Aquinas studied under Saint Albert the Great, who was someone who studied translations of books from Islamic libraries produced in Toledo, Spain, as well as works from Jewish scholars such as Maimonides (who also lived in Islamic Spain). Even after these reforms, scientists like Galileo Galilei were prosecuted so the tolerance of science was only up to the point in which it caused discomfort to the Church.
alephnerd 3y ago
My point is you can't make a cultural argument about human development, as culture and identity are inherently intersectional and wishy-washy, and cultures change very rapidly. Institutional arguments are easier to test and validate, as there are actual benchmarks you can use. There is too much distance between culture in the 1500s and the 21st century to accurately garner an impact between one or the other. The world has been globalized since the 19th century, and as such all societies have mixed and matched ideas and philosophies. Heck, my great-grandfather - who never lived in a house with electricity until our ancestral village in the high Himalayas was electrified in the 1980s - knew about Hitler and FDR, and vaguely heard about "communism", Wilson's 14 Points (being a village teacher didn't hurt either), and switched from drinking Gurgur Cha made using Gunpowder Tea to Masala Chai using Assam tea after the British lead marketing campaign during the Great Depression.