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Neat. Glad I opted out of their binding arbitration. If they apply this as an update to the TV I bought two years ago, I'll be demanding a full refund and takin

Neat. Glad I opted out of their binding arbitration. If they apply this as an update to the TV I bought two years ago, I'll be demanding a full refund and taking them to small claims court if they refuse.

LeoPanthera 3y ago
Is it worth it? Roku has shown you their intentions. Believe them. Sell it now, and buy a TV from a company that makes money by selling TVs.
- smallmancontrov 3y ago
  Yes, but Roku has metastasized: be sure not to buy a TV with bundled Roku either.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    As of this moment, I'm not aware of a TV on the market that connects to the Internet on its own without using the owner's Wi-Fi or Ethernet. To my knowledge, none of my TVs are online in any way whatsoever. I'd vastly rather use an Apple TV (or Android equivalent or PS5 or XBox or whatever) than some TV's junky built-in apps anyway.
    - smallmancontrov 3y ago
      You underestimate the evil that is Roku. I did too. I thought I just wouldn't connect my Roku-enabled TV to the internet and it would be fine. Turns out that it starts bootlooping after a few months if you don't let it download ads. Can't return it at that point, so you call support... who helps you connect it to the internet. Boot loop goes away, ads download, fine whatever you'll just disconnect it after the call, right? But then after a while it starts bootlooping again, until you let it download ads. Amazingly sinister.
      - kstrauser 3y ago
        > Can't return it at that point The hell I can't. Most major credit cards include extended warranties that let you return defective items for a year or so after purchase. A TV that can't be used as a TV without purchasing additional 3rd-party services (i.e. Internet access), and that doesn't make that clear at the time of purchase, is defective. I'd let Roku make their case to American Express. I'm completely serious here. That's defective. I've never seen a TV with "requires Internet access" on the box. There are many millions of households that'd still prefer to watch free OTA broadcasts and have no interest in subscribing to an Internet service. My own mom has no Internet access beyond her iPhone. If her TV stopped working unless she bought it an unnecessary online account, she'd be back in the store raising hell until someone gave her a refund.
        smallmancontrov 3y ago
        My card ended their extended warranty program about a year before I bought the TV. But yes, agreed, this makes it defective.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  > buy a TV from a company that makes money by selling TVs. These pretty much don't exist at the consumer level at all anymore. Two years ago, when I purchased this TV, I searched pretty extensively for consumer level TVs that meet your description. I found none. The only option was to move up to commercial market stuff, that is much more expensive, and designed to be on nearly all the time. Seriously, if you have a recommendation for a consumer TV company that makes money by selling TVs, I'm all ears. I believe them, but I'm also not going to put this TV on some other poor (probably unsuspecting) consumer. No, the TV has become defective, through a deliberate manufacturer's choice, and I'll demand my money back.
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    There's a difference between "smart" TVs and TVs that make money from advertising, though.
    - RussianCow 3y ago
      There really isn't anymore. I'm not the parent, but I have also been passively searching for a new TV and have come to the same conclusion, which is why I haven't rushed out to buy one since my current one (without WiFi) still works. If you know of any brand or model that doesn't collect your data and participate in some form of advertising, I'm all ears! As an aside: The other problem with smart TVs is that, even if the TV doesn't currently show you ads, it's one update away from doing so. A friend of mine had that happen with his TV (don't remember which brand), where it had a clean UI when he first bought it and now the home screen is littered with ads.
    - ncallaway 3y ago
      > Seriously, if you have a recommendation for a consumer TV company that makes money by selling TVs, I'm all ears.

LeoPanthera 3y ago

Is it worth it? Roku has shown you their intentions. Believe them. Sell it now, and buy a TV from a company that makes money by selling TVs.

smallmancontrov 3y ago
Yes, but Roku has metastasized: be sure not to buy a TV with bundled Roku either.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  As of this moment, I'm not aware of a TV on the market that connects to the Internet on its own without using the owner's Wi-Fi or Ethernet. To my knowledge, none of my TVs are online in any way whatsoever. I'd vastly rather use an Apple TV (or Android equivalent or PS5 or XBox or whatever) than some TV's junky built-in apps anyway.
  - smallmancontrov 3y ago
    You underestimate the evil that is Roku. I did too. I thought I just wouldn't connect my Roku-enabled TV to the internet and it would be fine. Turns out that it starts bootlooping after a few months if you don't let it download ads. Can't return it at that point, so you call support... who helps you connect it to the internet. Boot loop goes away, ads download, fine whatever you'll just disconnect it after the call, right? But then after a while it starts bootlooping again, until you let it download ads. Amazingly sinister.
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      > Can't return it at that point The hell I can't. Most major credit cards include extended warranties that let you return defective items for a year or so after purchase. A TV that can't be used as a TV without purchasing additional 3rd-party services (i.e. Internet access), and that doesn't make that clear at the time of purchase, is defective. I'd let Roku make their case to American Express. I'm completely serious here. That's defective. I've never seen a TV with "requires Internet access" on the box. There are many millions of households that'd still prefer to watch free OTA broadcasts and have no interest in subscribing to an Internet service. My own mom has no Internet access beyond her iPhone. If her TV stopped working unless she bought it an unnecessary online account, she'd be back in the store raising hell until someone gave her a refund.
      - smallmancontrov 3y ago
        My card ended their extended warranty program about a year before I bought the TV. But yes, agreed, this makes it defective.
ncallaway 3y ago
> buy a TV from a company that makes money by selling TVs. These pretty much don't exist at the consumer level at all anymore. Two years ago, when I purchased this TV, I searched pretty extensively for consumer level TVs that meet your description. I found none. The only option was to move up to commercial market stuff, that is much more expensive, and designed to be on nearly all the time. Seriously, if you have a recommendation for a consumer TV company that makes money by selling TVs, I'm all ears. I believe them, but I'm also not going to put this TV on some other poor (probably unsuspecting) consumer. No, the TV has become defective, through a deliberate manufacturer's choice, and I'll demand my money back.
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  There's a difference between "smart" TVs and TVs that make money from advertising, though.
  - RussianCow 3y ago
    There really isn't anymore. I'm not the parent, but I have also been passively searching for a new TV and have come to the same conclusion, which is why I haven't rushed out to buy one since my current one (without WiFi) still works. If you know of any brand or model that doesn't collect your data and participate in some form of advertising, I'm all ears! As an aside: The other problem with smart TVs is that, even if the TV doesn't currently show you ads, it's one update away from doing so. A friend of mine had that happen with his TV (don't remember which brand), where it had a clean UI when he first bought it and now the home screen is littered with ads.
  - ncallaway 3y ago
    > Seriously, if you have a recommendation for a consumer TV company that makes money by selling TVs, I'm all ears.