3 ms·
> It wasn't a potential lie. He _had not_ secured funding. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that (but then again, hard to prove a negative), and he still
by arandomusername 3y ago
> It wasn't a potential lie. He _had not_ secured funding.
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that (but then again, hard to prove a negative), and he still claims he did. Either way, like I said, I'm willing to concede on this point and agree that this is a lie, the only outright lie in my opinion that I have seen.
> It's a "petty insult" to say "I have evidence that you are a pedophile, arandomusername" to all the media that will print it? No, he had no evidence. In fact he scrambled after this to hire a private investigator to try to find some.
It's petty insult because the other dude first said his submarine thing is useless or whatever (while the lead diver actually asked him to continue working on it). So he fired back, hence petty insult.
> Musk is literally signing documents being sent to DMVs saying that FSD "this year" is "not an engineering reality".
Show me a document that Musk signed, that says FSD not reality this year & a quote from Elon in similar timeframe suggesting FSD that year.
> At some point you lose any credibility
Yes he lost credibility when it comes to promising things. If he said Tesla $25k next year, you would be fully in the right not to believe that. But it is not the same as saying Tesla is working on a $25k car when not working on it.
> That was a lie. Musk reinstated thousands of banned accounts two weeks after that tweet, with no content moderation council in sight (which to this day has not been set up).
Sure, but if we give him benefit of the doubt could have just been change of plans. I don't believe he tweeted that while knowing he will not set it up.
> 33 days later: "Tesla sells $272M in Bitcoin from orders."
Where's the "from orders" part? Tesla bought $1.5B worth of Bitcoin before that, perhaps they are selling some from that "investment"?
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/02/08/tesla-invests-15b-in-bitcoin-plans-to-accept-crypto-payments/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/02/08/tesla-invests-1...
- FireBeyond 3y agoDigging into this one, first: > It's petty insult because the other dude first said his submarine thing is useless or whatever Being blunt, uh, "so fucking what"? So someone says your idea is not useful, and your response is to blaze to the media that you have _evidence_ of _actual criminal behavior_ of a heinous nature? That's not petty insults in anybody's world, no matter what they say about your submarine.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoYeah, 'the diver displeased me' doesn't make retaliatory lies not lies.
- arandomusername 3y agoYour rephrasing of what's been said to lessen the impact is not appreciated. He didn't tell him his idea is not useful, he told him “stick his submarine where it hurts”. Elon fired back. Hence petty insult.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoIf someone hurts your feelings, libel and slander are neither "firing back" nor justified.
- FireBeyond 3y agoYou still stubbornly fail to see how going to the media with the claim that you have actual evidence of felony criminal behavior is not just a "petty insult", no matter what someone said to you to begin with. And let's be really real for a moment, Elon was as concerned about making himself a hero and savior and inserting himself in a situation that was time and resource critical, in a way that could actually have diverted progress AWAY from the rescue as anything else, and he did so by firing off the first idea that came into his head with zero inkling of its viability (because any more than 30 seconds critical thinking with a look at the cave map would show that there was ZERO chance this thing would get even a fraction of a distance towards anyone in the cave system), but figured "the world needs to hear from me now". In your eyes, someone saying something vaguely insulting to you means you should feel free to go to the media or their employer and say "XYZ is a criminal who does abhorrent things, and I have proof", and that's a fair response to an insulting comment to you. That's one fairly small step away from SWATing someone. I don't feel its tenable to continue a debate given that wide a definitional gap.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago>> It wasn't a potential lie. He _had not_ secured funding. > I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that (but then again, hard to prove a negative) The SEC has: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226 > Sure, but if we give him benefit of the doubt could have just been change of plans. He's lost the benefit of the doubt by so frequently being dishonest, but in any case: saying you're going to do something, then choosing not to do it, makes you a liar.
- arandomusername 3y ago> Musk and Tesla have agreed to settle the charges against them without admitting or denying the SEC’s allegations > He's lost the benefit of the doubt by so frequently being dishonest But so far it's down to two, tesla private and twitter committee. Hardly frequently being dishonest.
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoHow many frauds does it take to make that conclusion? Just one will suffice for most of us.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago"Down to two" according to who?