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No way. Bourbon is still very affordable. You’re getting 8/10 bourbons at Total Wine or Costco for $20 - $25 like Buffalo Trace, Wild Turkey 101, Elijah Craig,

No way. Bourbon is still very affordable. You’re getting 8/10 bourbons at Total Wine or Costco for $20 - $25 like Buffalo Trace, Wild Turkey 101, Elijah Craig, Old Forester, etc. That’s the stuff even fancy NYC bars will put in a $20 cocktail. The 9/10 are still around $50.

RajT88 3y ago
I've been to Louisville for work / vacation a bunch of times. The "Van Winkle" stuff is not measurably better than the cheapest Knob Creek, IMO.
- giantg2 3y ago
  In many cases it's a hype cycle. It's possible that specific years really are excellent. But it's impossible to know unless you get in at the same time it is blowing up. Once it's been hyped, it's hard to obtain, hard to live up to, and sometimes quality goes down as supply ramps up (although with aging it's not ramping up fast).
giantg2 3y ago
The ones you named don't seem to be 8/10 on the sites I viewed. They're also more expensive than that in most places, like 50% more (depends on state taxes). Even $50/bottle is on the expensive side for many people. Yeah, cocktail bourbons have a lower bar.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  You’re going by sites? Even so, on distiller.com, top 2% bottles like Elijah Craig Barrel Proof and JD Single Barrel Proof are 4.3 and 4.13 respectively, when Buffalo Trace is a 3.7. Of course if you want one of the best bourbons there is it’s going to be “expensive” as in $50-$60. That doesn’t mean that the average Joe can’t get a great bourbon for $25 (17 servings). That’s the same ballpark every regular Joe blows on an 18 pack of beer for a football game with friends. Only a few states have high taxes or poor competition (only gov stores) and that’s not Bourbon specific that’s just liquor in general. Ultimately, prices have gone up only because it’s so easy for the average person to get a great bottle of Eagle Rare that takes 10 years to make. The demand is there at the price point, it’s not like a hedge fund is buying up stock to hoard it.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Well you mentioned ratings, so yeah I looked up ratings on sites. Yeah, the barrel proof Elijah Craig is good stuff. The typical sale price of that is around it's MSRP - $70. The "best" bourbons are not going to be $50/bottle because the rating process ends up largely in a hype cycle and you see them going for $100+. But there are some lists of the best "obtainable" or "budget friendly" bourbons that have decent options in the $50 range. Yes, Eagle Rare 10 is a good value for a 10yo, if you can find it around the MSRP ($30). However, it's commonly going around $50. It's also worth noting that the theory is they are thinning out the barrels that are good but not great - leaving the great barrels for the longer aging lines (not sure how true that is for this line). Usually the consistency/quality is all per the place at the lower end, and I've noticed more of it in the mid level segments now too. Yeah, I get there is demand. The international market is driving a lot of that in recent years. The market is also seeing huge gains in popularity/consumption in the wealthier segments. Hedge funds might not be buying it up, but there are some people investing in bottles like there are some people doing so with wine. That's really only going to affect the top level exclusive stuff though. But if you have a suggestion of a "great" bourbon for only $25, please let me know and I will check them out. I've found plenty of good mixer bourbons at that level and a few decent bourbons whose consistency/QC was wildly different from one bottle to the next.
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      I'm guessing you already heard my suggestions of Buffalo Trace, Wild Turkey 101, Elijah Craig, and Old Forester 100, $22, $22, $23, and $23, and near me respectively. There's Early Times Bottled in Bond, $27 for 1L: https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/early-times-bottled-in-bond/p/183528010?s=1404&igrules=true https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/early-times-bottle... Barton 1792 for $27: https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/small-batch-bourbon/1792-kentucky-bourbon-whiskey-small-batch/p/99630750?s=1115&igrules=true https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/small-batch-bourbo... and Old Grandad 100 for $22: https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/old-grand-dad-100/p/2844750?s=1115&igrules=true https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/old-grand-dad-100/... Knob Creek 9 I see around $45 for a handle which is like $20 for 750ml too. Of course, they're no Old Forester 1920, Rare Breed, JD Single Barrel Proof, or Woodford Double Oaked, but I still think they're "great" and is really all one really needs when most people are busy chugging Jim Beam White Label.

RajT88 3y ago

I've been to Louisville for work / vacation a bunch of times. The "Van Winkle" stuff is not measurably better than the cheapest Knob Creek, IMO.

giantg2 3y ago
In many cases it's a hype cycle. It's possible that specific years really are excellent. But it's impossible to know unless you get in at the same time it is blowing up. Once it's been hyped, it's hard to obtain, hard to live up to, and sometimes quality goes down as supply ramps up (although with aging it's not ramping up fast).

giantg2 3y ago

The ones you named don't seem to be 8/10 on the sites I viewed. They're also more expensive than that in most places, like 50% more (depends on state taxes). Even $50/bottle is on the expensive side for many people. Yeah, cocktail bourbons have a lower bar.

reducesuffering 3y ago
You’re going by sites? Even so, on distiller.com, top 2% bottles like Elijah Craig Barrel Proof and JD Single Barrel Proof are 4.3 and 4.13 respectively, when Buffalo Trace is a 3.7. Of course if you want one of the best bourbons there is it’s going to be “expensive” as in $50-$60. That doesn’t mean that the average Joe can’t get a great bourbon for $25 (17 servings). That’s the same ballpark every regular Joe blows on an 18 pack of beer for a football game with friends. Only a few states have high taxes or poor competition (only gov stores) and that’s not Bourbon specific that’s just liquor in general. Ultimately, prices have gone up only because it’s so easy for the average person to get a great bottle of Eagle Rare that takes 10 years to make. The demand is there at the price point, it’s not like a hedge fund is buying up stock to hoard it.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Well you mentioned ratings, so yeah I looked up ratings on sites. Yeah, the barrel proof Elijah Craig is good stuff. The typical sale price of that is around it's MSRP - $70. The "best" bourbons are not going to be $50/bottle because the rating process ends up largely in a hype cycle and you see them going for $100+. But there are some lists of the best "obtainable" or "budget friendly" bourbons that have decent options in the $50 range. Yes, Eagle Rare 10 is a good value for a 10yo, if you can find it around the MSRP ($30). However, it's commonly going around $50. It's also worth noting that the theory is they are thinning out the barrels that are good but not great - leaving the great barrels for the longer aging lines (not sure how true that is for this line). Usually the consistency/quality is all per the place at the lower end, and I've noticed more of it in the mid level segments now too. Yeah, I get there is demand. The international market is driving a lot of that in recent years. The market is also seeing huge gains in popularity/consumption in the wealthier segments. Hedge funds might not be buying it up, but there are some people investing in bottles like there are some people doing so with wine. That's really only going to affect the top level exclusive stuff though. But if you have a suggestion of a "great" bourbon for only $25, please let me know and I will check them out. I've found plenty of good mixer bourbons at that level and a few decent bourbons whose consistency/QC was wildly different from one bottle to the next.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    I'm guessing you already heard my suggestions of Buffalo Trace, Wild Turkey 101, Elijah Craig, and Old Forester 100, $22, $22, $23, and $23, and near me respectively. There's Early Times Bottled in Bond, $27 for 1L: https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/early-times-bottled-in-bond/p/183528010?s=1404&igrules=true https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/early-times-bottle... Barton 1792 for $27: https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/small-batch-bourbon/1792-kentucky-bourbon-whiskey-small-batch/p/99630750?s=1115&igrules=true https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/small-batch-bourbo... and Old Grandad 100 for $22: https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/old-grand-dad-100/p/2844750?s=1115&igrules=true https://www.totalwine.com/spirits/bourbon/old-grand-dad-100/... Knob Creek 9 I see around $45 for a handle which is like $20 for 750ml too. Of course, they're no Old Forester 1920, Rare Breed, JD Single Barrel Proof, or Woodford Double Oaked, but I still think they're "great" and is really all one really needs when most people are busy chugging Jim Beam White Label.