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A serious concern is how mining operations won't really be observed as much when they're working at the bottom of the sea. Blowing up a mountain may be subject

A serious concern is how mining operations won't really be observed as much when they're working at the bottom of the sea. Blowing up a mountain may be subject to witnesses - at least satellite imagery for very rural areas. On the other hand, who can observe the actions of deep sea mining? There won't always be an enormous oil slick to let the public know that someone has been reckless down below.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
we'll find out when the dead fish wash up and start rotting
vkou 3y ago
> On the other hand, who can observe the actions of deep sea mining? It should be trivial to observe drilling and excavation vessels loitering, and ore carriers leaving the site. Not to mention that mining claims will have to be registered somewhere. (And if you don't, someone else will observe you excavating, and register their own claim on your site, and start digging alongside you. You may get a postcard and a thank-you note for the prospecting legwork you've done for your competitor.) Mining has an incredible footprint of manpower and machinery. You can't keep it secret.
onthecanposting 3y ago
Western open pit mining operations will have environmental remediation plans that are likely bonded. Eventually, the ecology will go back to normal. Meanwhile, a monstrosity like Los Angeles will remain a massive concrete eye sore for centuries.
- MrVandemar 3y ago
  > Eventually, the ecology will go back to normal. No, it won't. Remediation of these areas usually involve planting back a fraction of the biodiversity that was there before, and usually cloned from the same genetic stock, making the new plants more of a monoculture and susceptible to disease and less adaptable to environmental changes. That's the plants. In the meantime, all the animals were pushed out of that large area (I've never seen a small mine), and then either killed their neighbors in the (assumed) adjacent ecosystem, or were killed by them. Great. Next you'll be telling us the remediated areas are actually better than what it was before (and in my anecdotal experience some mining companies not only say exactly this, but commission studies to prove it).
  - onthecanposting 3y ago
    They might be better. This is opposed to say, any metropolitan area on earth, where there is no attempt to restore prior conditions at all. I think your argument is essentially an ad-hominem that asserts without evidence that mining companies are evil. I find this a bigotted point of view. My point is that the permanent disturbance of urbanization should be much more concerning than temporary disturbances.
- defrost 3y ago
  > Western open pit mining operations will have environmental remediation plans that are likely bonded. New pits opened within the last two decades probably .. but possibly in ways that can be dodged. Older pits nearing the end of 50 or 70 year life spans .. unlikey. These are often "sold" to cut out companies that have no real assets to speak of and soon go bankrupt .. leaving the former owners in the clear. Eg: Once the largest open pit lead-zinc mine in the world, Faro Mine is now the site of one of the most complex abandoned mine remediation projects in Canada. The 25 square kilometre mine site located in south-central Yukon on traditional territory of KaskaNations was abandoned in 1998 and has since been in care and maintenance. https://aecom.com/en-ca/projects/faro-mine-remediation/ https://aecom.com/en-ca/projects/faro-mine-remediation/ In 2022, we were contracted by Public Services and Procurement Canada on behalf of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada to lead the team developing the remediation plan design and quality assurance support services. ie. Private resource extraction and profits .. public (tax payer | indigenous communities) bears the cost of cleanup and toxins. It's the same with offshore rigs in marine environs being abandoned for the public purse to deal with. In theory it shouldn't be happening and bonds should have been held in escrow, in practice many western countries (New Zealand, Australia, elsewhere .. ) are seeing projects ending with no remediation.
  - onthecanposting 3y ago
    You may be defining a rule by the exception. You did have to find an example from 26 years ago.
    - defrost 2y ago
      How many mines do you think there are? What percentage have remediation plans? What is the lifetime of a mine? How many thousands of years ago was the first Rio Tinto mine, and when did they close it? > You did have to find an example from 26 years ago. It seems you don't know much about global mining. https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/metals-mining https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/met...
    - defrost 2y ago
amenhotep 3y ago
When a whistleblower comes forward, liquidate the company and give them half the proceeds.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

we'll find out when the dead fish wash up and start rotting

vkou 3y ago

> On the other hand, who can observe the actions of deep sea mining? It should be trivial to observe drilling and excavation vessels loitering, and ore carriers leaving the site. Not to mention that mining claims will have to be registered somewhere. (And if you don't, someone else will observe you excavating, and register their own claim on your site, and start digging alongside you. You may get a postcard and a thank-you note for the prospecting legwork you've done for your competitor.) Mining has an incredible footprint of manpower and machinery. You can't keep it secret.

onthecanposting 3y ago

Western open pit mining operations will have environmental remediation plans that are likely bonded. Eventually, the ecology will go back to normal. Meanwhile, a monstrosity like Los Angeles will remain a massive concrete eye sore for centuries.

MrVandemar 3y ago
> Eventually, the ecology will go back to normal. No, it won't. Remediation of these areas usually involve planting back a fraction of the biodiversity that was there before, and usually cloned from the same genetic stock, making the new plants more of a monoculture and susceptible to disease and less adaptable to environmental changes. That's the plants. In the meantime, all the animals were pushed out of that large area (I've never seen a small mine), and then either killed their neighbors in the (assumed) adjacent ecosystem, or were killed by them. Great. Next you'll be telling us the remediated areas are actually better than what it was before (and in my anecdotal experience some mining companies not only say exactly this, but commission studies to prove it).
- onthecanposting 3y ago
  They might be better. This is opposed to say, any metropolitan area on earth, where there is no attempt to restore prior conditions at all. I think your argument is essentially an ad-hominem that asserts without evidence that mining companies are evil. I find this a bigotted point of view. My point is that the permanent disturbance of urbanization should be much more concerning than temporary disturbances.
defrost 3y ago
> Western open pit mining operations will have environmental remediation plans that are likely bonded. New pits opened within the last two decades probably .. but possibly in ways that can be dodged. Older pits nearing the end of 50 or 70 year life spans .. unlikey. These are often "sold" to cut out companies that have no real assets to speak of and soon go bankrupt .. leaving the former owners in the clear. Eg: Once the largest open pit lead-zinc mine in the world, Faro Mine is now the site of one of the most complex abandoned mine remediation projects in Canada. The 25 square kilometre mine site located in south-central Yukon on traditional territory of KaskaNations was abandoned in 1998 and has since been in care and maintenance. https://aecom.com/en-ca/projects/faro-mine-remediation/ https://aecom.com/en-ca/projects/faro-mine-remediation/ In 2022, we were contracted by Public Services and Procurement Canada on behalf of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada to lead the team developing the remediation plan design and quality assurance support services. ie. Private resource extraction and profits .. public (tax payer | indigenous communities) bears the cost of cleanup and toxins. It's the same with offshore rigs in marine environs being abandoned for the public purse to deal with. In theory it shouldn't be happening and bonds should have been held in escrow, in practice many western countries (New Zealand, Australia, elsewhere .. ) are seeing projects ending with no remediation.
- onthecanposting 3y ago
  You may be defining a rule by the exception. You did have to find an example from 26 years ago.
  - defrost 2y ago
    How many mines do you think there are? What percentage have remediation plans? What is the lifetime of a mine? How many thousands of years ago was the first Rio Tinto mine, and when did they close it? > You did have to find an example from 26 years ago. It seems you don't know much about global mining. https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/metals-mining https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/met...
  - defrost 2y ago

amenhotep 3y ago

When a whistleblower comes forward, liquidate the company and give them half the proceeds.