4 ms·

On one side is Reuters with "three sources familiar with the matter and company messages seen by Reuters" and the other side is the CEO with a penchant for outr

by mvdtnz 3y ago

On one side is Reuters with "three sources familiar with the matter and company messages seen by Reuters" and the other side is the CEO with a penchant for outright lies. Neither is a particularly reliable source but I don't see any problem with Tech Crunch's framing given Musk's history of outright lying about what's happening in Tesla.

BoorishBears 3y ago
Yeah, what should be wild to them is that a CEO of a major company has washed their credibility so badly that their word isn't worth much more than a rumor is
arandomusername 3y ago
What is some of the outright lying? And let's not consider optimistic goals as lying, can you show examples of actual lying where he knew the opposite was true?
- viraptor 3y ago
  There's quite a few lists of you're actually interested. For example https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk-twitter-zuckerberg-lies-1234808808/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk... Just search for them - most are verified by his tweets at the time.
  - arandomusername 3y ago
    Literally first item on your list is basically too optimistic > Talking Up Hyperloop, the (Fantasy) Transportation of the Future Another item > Saying He’d Take Tesla Private With a Tweet, Then Getting Sued for Fraud Actual tweet: “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” Which a) reads like a joke and b) didn't say he is taking, but considering. The only potential lie is wrt funding, which he still claims he had secured. > Procrastinating on an Epic Manned Mission to Mars Again, over-promising / optimistic. It's not outright lying. > Resorting to ‘Pedo’ Smears Because Someone Didn’t Like His Little Submersible Only lie, but it's more of petty insulting than outright lying, at least when it comes to with relation in business matters. > Constantly Kicking the Can Down the Road on Fully Self-Driving Teslas Again, optimistic. First 5 points addressed, and it's junk. The closest thing to him outright lying is the “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” tweet. And that's the best. The rest of the article is just whining about twitter this and that. It's a hit piece instead of an objective list of lies.
    - jrflowers 3y ago
      Check mate. He cannot have lied about Tesla if anything he says about Tesla is categorically excluded from being a lie for the purposes of this conversation.
      - arandomusername 3y ago
        We are excluding optimistic promises that weren't true, because it's completely different than outright lying about what you are working on
        echoangle 3y ago
        Would you consider it lying if he made optimistic promises while knowing they were impossible?
        arandomusername 3y ago
        yes
        echoangle 3y ago
        So you think that Elon seriously believed that Autopilot was coming the same year for 9 years or so in a row? If that wasn’t a total lie, he’s really stupid. He obviously knows that he’s wrong but still makes completely unrealistic predictions for hype/marketing reasons. That’s lying.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        jrflowers 3y ago
        Exactly. We are excluding his public statements about Tesla because
        mvdtnz 3y ago
        > We are excluding optimistic promises that weren't true You're excluding that. Most people do not, because he has a history of making wildly optimistic (to the point of completely unrealistic) "predictions" in order to froth up media attention and juice his company's value. Most people consider this a lie. You don't.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  This is a great question. Apropos of nothing it is important to proactively ask for the definition of lies be adjusted to exclude a large portion of his public statements, which is a very normal thing to do when discussing anyone’s honesty. That aside here is a cool website I’ve found https://elonmusk.today/ https://elonmusk.today/
- mrkeen 3y ago
  Full self-driving
- peutetre 3y ago
  > And let's not consider optimistic goals as lying It's no longer "optimism" when you've been telling the same lie for 10 years: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ His own self imposed deadlines were never met, even when he repeatedly changed them to new deadlines. Tesla's "full self-driving" is not and never has been full self-driving.
asdajksah2123 3y ago
Well unless Reuters just made up these 3 sources they aren't lying. Even if what they're claiming is false, the most likely reason is that they've been fed wrong info by their sources. But that's not what Elon is claiming. He's claiming that Reuters is knowingly printing information they know to be false.
- arandomusername 3y ago
  Verifying sources is a huge responsibility of news networks. You can get a source for anything you want, and they should be held reliable (in terms of respect, maybe not by law) for publishing information from sources that are false. IF (and that's the IF, not saying it's the case) Tesla did not drop plans to build $25k EVs, then people should criticize reuters for getting it wrong.

by mvdtnz 3y ago

BoorishBears 3y ago

Yeah, what should be wild to them is that a CEO of a major company has washed their credibility so badly that their word isn't worth much more than a rumor is

arandomusername 3y ago

What is some of the outright lying? And let's not consider optimistic goals as lying, can you show examples of actual lying where he knew the opposite was true?

viraptor 3y ago
There's quite a few lists of you're actually interested. For example https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk-twitter-zuckerberg-lies-1234808808/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk... Just search for them - most are verified by his tweets at the time.
- arandomusername 3y ago
  Literally first item on your list is basically too optimistic > Talking Up Hyperloop, the (Fantasy) Transportation of the Future Another item > Saying He’d Take Tesla Private With a Tweet, Then Getting Sued for Fraud Actual tweet: “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” Which a) reads like a joke and b) didn't say he is taking, but considering. The only potential lie is wrt funding, which he still claims he had secured. > Procrastinating on an Epic Manned Mission to Mars Again, over-promising / optimistic. It's not outright lying. > Resorting to ‘Pedo’ Smears Because Someone Didn’t Like His Little Submersible Only lie, but it's more of petty insulting than outright lying, at least when it comes to with relation in business matters. > Constantly Kicking the Can Down the Road on Fully Self-Driving Teslas Again, optimistic. First 5 points addressed, and it's junk. The closest thing to him outright lying is the “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” tweet. And that's the best. The rest of the article is just whining about twitter this and that. It's a hit piece instead of an objective list of lies.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    Check mate. He cannot have lied about Tesla if anything he says about Tesla is categorically excluded from being a lie for the purposes of this conversation.
    - arandomusername 3y ago
      We are excluding optimistic promises that weren't true, because it's completely different than outright lying about what you are working on
      - echoangle 3y ago
        Would you consider it lying if he made optimistic promises while knowing they were impossible?
        arandomusername 3y ago
        yes
        echoangle 3y ago
        So you think that Elon seriously believed that Autopilot was coming the same year for 9 years or so in a row? If that wasn’t a total lie, he’s really stupid. He obviously knows that he’s wrong but still makes completely unrealistic predictions for hype/marketing reasons. That’s lying.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - jrflowers 3y ago
        Exactly. We are excluding his public statements about Tesla because
      - mvdtnz 3y ago
        > We are excluding optimistic promises that weren't true You're excluding that. Most people do not, because he has a history of making wildly optimistic (to the point of completely unrealistic) "predictions" in order to froth up media attention and juice his company's value. Most people consider this a lie. You don't.
jrflowers 3y ago
This is a great question. Apropos of nothing it is important to proactively ask for the definition of lies be adjusted to exclude a large portion of his public statements, which is a very normal thing to do when discussing anyone’s honesty. That aside here is a cool website I’ve found https://elonmusk.today/ https://elonmusk.today/
mrkeen 3y ago
Full self-driving
peutetre 3y ago
> And let's not consider optimistic goals as lying It's no longer "optimism" when you've been telling the same lie for 10 years: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ His own self imposed deadlines were never met, even when he repeatedly changed them to new deadlines. Tesla's "full self-driving" is not and never has been full self-driving.

asdajksah2123 3y ago

Well unless Reuters just made up these 3 sources they aren't lying. Even if what they're claiming is false, the most likely reason is that they've been fed wrong info by their sources. But that's not what Elon is claiming. He's claiming that Reuters is knowingly printing information they know to be false.

arandomusername 3y ago
Verifying sources is a huge responsibility of news networks. You can get a source for anything you want, and they should be held reliable (in terms of respect, maybe not by law) for publishing information from sources that are false. IF (and that's the IF, not saying it's the case) Tesla did not drop plans to build $25k EVs, then people should criticize reuters for getting it wrong.