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I think this is why the shadow libraries are the only spheres that will be able to resist being taken over by AI. If you're risking jail time to distribute the

I think this is why the shadow libraries are the only spheres that will be able to resist being taken over by AI. If you're risking jail time to distribute the written word, you're not going to waste your resources on AI generated stuff.

dimask 3y ago
Running, protecting and supporting these shadow libraries is one of the biggest service to contemporary's humankind's written culture that can be done nowadays. Sometimes the discussion is just on "copyright" and "for knowledge to be free", but some older material is actually realistically impossible or extremely hard/time consuming to find out of these shadow libraries. Money is not the only problem that makes certain material inaccessible. Having these places shut down and their material disappear by copyright predator firms would be catastrophic in a way that has probably not happened since events like the burning of the library of Alexandria. The current state of AI just makes it even more important.
yorwba 3y ago
If you're risking jail time to distribute as much of the written word as possible, you're going to include AI-generated stuff as well. Because the alternative is to waste time checking every single book. LibGen already has plenty of garbage: books that were already garbage when they were written, blurry or truncated scans, OCRed text in the wrong script without the original scans etc. etc. If someone hacks Google Books and downloads the entire collection, are they going to laboriously filter out the AI garbage? No. Just throw it on the Pile.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Your comment makes sense, but we have a real world example to compare to that I think is relevant: YouTube videos. They are not uploaded to torrent sites or other pirate download sites. The closest we have to "pirating" are Invidious proxies. And I'd say that the reason is that the proportion of garbage to quality is so high on YouTube, that pirates don't really want to touch it. If AI slop becomes a problem, it's not going to be included. The incentive for publishers of AI generated books is that they make money selling them to people.
  - mapt 3y ago
    As Youtube becomes less and less of a stable platform, archivists are in fact starting to do that, but knowing that it's free media provides significantly less incentive for leechers.
tokai 3y ago
Do you know that they don't serve AI generated content or are you just assuming?
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  I am just assuming. I use many different sources for finding information, and this is how results have been for years: Social media: Mostly not AI generated YouTube: Significant part AI generated Google: Mostly AI generated Kagi: Significant part AI generated Anna's Archive: Never seen any AI generated results LibGen: Never seen any AI generated results Google Books: Never seen any AI generated results Google Maps: Never seen any AI generated results Are there any other huge online resources for finding information that I've missed? Considering that the amount of information available in a the shadow libraries rivals the general Internet in size, I think it is impressive how they have managed to keep relatively clean.
mapt 3y ago
Why not? Why isn't spam a highly effective attack by the copyright agencies?
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Only the librarians can add books to the library.
barfbagginus 3y ago
I think that AI generated from the shadow libraries is going to be the only good AI If you're willing to risk jail time to distribute an AI, you're not going to waste time on capitalist AI Long live communist AI!
hackernewds 3y ago
what shadow library?
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Pirate websites to download books. They are right now the largest libraries that have ever existed. Anna's Archive is the largest, LibGen is the most famous one. Their roots are from Soviet times, when underground librarians distributed books out of control by the government.
  - Intralexical 3y ago
    I already knew about them and appreciate some of the figures behind them, but when you lay it out like that, that's so badass.

dimask 3y ago

Running, protecting and supporting these shadow libraries is one of the biggest service to contemporary's humankind's written culture that can be done nowadays. Sometimes the discussion is just on "copyright" and "for knowledge to be free", but some older material is actually realistically impossible or extremely hard/time consuming to find out of these shadow libraries. Money is not the only problem that makes certain material inaccessible. Having these places shut down and their material disappear by copyright predator firms would be catastrophic in a way that has probably not happened since events like the burning of the library of Alexandria. The current state of AI just makes it even more important.

yorwba 3y ago

If you're risking jail time to distribute as much of the written word as possible, you're going to include AI-generated stuff as well. Because the alternative is to waste time checking every single book. LibGen already has plenty of garbage: books that were already garbage when they were written, blurry or truncated scans, OCRed text in the wrong script without the original scans etc. etc. If someone hacks Google Books and downloads the entire collection, are they going to laboriously filter out the AI garbage? No. Just throw it on the Pile.

carlosjobim 3y ago
Your comment makes sense, but we have a real world example to compare to that I think is relevant: YouTube videos. They are not uploaded to torrent sites or other pirate download sites. The closest we have to "pirating" are Invidious proxies. And I'd say that the reason is that the proportion of garbage to quality is so high on YouTube, that pirates don't really want to touch it. If AI slop becomes a problem, it's not going to be included. The incentive for publishers of AI generated books is that they make money selling them to people.
- mapt 3y ago
  As Youtube becomes less and less of a stable platform, archivists are in fact starting to do that, but knowing that it's free media provides significantly less incentive for leechers.

tokai 3y ago

Do you know that they don't serve AI generated content or are you just assuming?

carlosjobim 3y ago
I am just assuming. I use many different sources for finding information, and this is how results have been for years: Social media: Mostly not AI generated YouTube: Significant part AI generated Google: Mostly AI generated Kagi: Significant part AI generated Anna's Archive: Never seen any AI generated results LibGen: Never seen any AI generated results Google Books: Never seen any AI generated results Google Maps: Never seen any AI generated results Are there any other huge online resources for finding information that I've missed? Considering that the amount of information available in a the shadow libraries rivals the general Internet in size, I think it is impressive how they have managed to keep relatively clean.

mapt 3y ago

Why not? Why isn't spam a highly effective attack by the copyright agencies?

carlosjobim 3y ago
Only the librarians can add books to the library.

barfbagginus 3y ago

I think that AI generated from the shadow libraries is going to be the only good AI If you're willing to risk jail time to distribute an AI, you're not going to waste time on capitalist AI Long live communist AI!

hackernewds 3y ago

what shadow library?

carlosjobim 3y ago
Pirate websites to download books. They are right now the largest libraries that have ever existed. Anna's Archive is the largest, LibGen is the most famous one. Their roots are from Soviet times, when underground librarians distributed books out of control by the government.
- Intralexical 3y ago
  I already knew about them and appreciate some of the figures behind them, but when you lay it out like that, that's so badass.