4 ms·

I can't believe they're throwing in the towel right now. Sure, whatever pipeline they were using before was maybe a dead end but with technology like GPT/Gemini

I can't believe they're throwing in the towel right now. Sure, whatever pipeline they were using before was maybe a dead end but with technology like GPT/Gemini vision they couldn't make it work? Did they even try?

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
This is how a ton of AI is operating right now. Both to filter training data and also to filter the results before they go back to the users, there is very often human oversight. And by human oversight I mean the same sort of extremely cheap and exploitable overseas labor that Amazon was using for this. Ultimately it might be as simple as the fact that even cheap ass labor plus the infrastructure plus the AI itself still costs something and ultimately that something is more than just paying some friggin cashiers at the bloody store to do the job.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  I don't get it though - what is wrong with trying different things and seeing if they work or not? If they don't, just pick what you had previously. What's the huge deal?
passwordoops 3y ago
You forgot the /s. And if you are serious, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying
- morkalork 3y ago
  Half serious, obviously too expensive to do today but there's huge advancements being made right now. I can see a startup building thing to make "Just Walk Out" stores work and getting bought out in next 5 years.
  - passwordoops 3y ago
    So the bridge isn't the biggest one you'll find, but it gets the job done. Should suit your needs just fine
    - morkalork 3y ago
      Got any real arguments for why it's such an intractable problem or do you just like to be an ass for fun?
      - passwordoops 3y ago
        Partially like being an ass for fun. My first question is what does a GPT have to do with solving this problem? Honest question, because I don't see how a language model helps solve this, so if your do have a clear explanation it will be appreciated. I get they parse image data but have they demonstrated better accuracy for this use case (grocery items/food) than what was available when Amazon started their campaign? There's also the fact that, yes more data gives better results... To a point. At this stage, I'm inclined to think we've hit that point when it comes to deep learning models' ability for object recognition and we're in a plateau until a rational new approach (i.e. not deep learning) allows for another leap. My last is more socialogically rooted. Namely, it's pretty clear that since sama said he'd need $7 Trillion, AI peddlers have jumped the shark and we're seeing a slow motion deflation of the major claims, even concerning LLMs (don't get me wrong, very impressive tech, but no where near the heights and capabilities of the hucksters). For that reason I'm very inclined to lean towards skepticism when people claim they've found a solution by incremental improvements to a problem that's proven to be very, very difficult for a computer to handle. I think we're nearing a general plateau in deep learning and need the next foundational approach or what we could find ourselves in another deep AI winter. Any reason you think my skepticism is unfounded and why 5 years?
        CamperBob2 3y ago
        My first question is what does a GPT have to do with solving this problem? Have you seen how effective transformer-based networks are at image recognition? They are literally better at reading bad cursive handwriting than I am, at this point. So yes, they can be pressed into service recognizing products being taken off of shelves and placed into carts or bags. "Just walk out" is a difficult problem but very much worth solving. We now have tools to attack it that nobody was even dreaming of when Amazon designed their current approach. Tools with near science-fiction levels of capability.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

This is how a ton of AI is operating right now. Both to filter training data and also to filter the results before they go back to the users, there is very often human oversight. And by human oversight I mean the same sort of extremely cheap and exploitable overseas labor that Amazon was using for this. Ultimately it might be as simple as the fact that even cheap ass labor plus the infrastructure plus the AI itself still costs something and ultimately that something is more than just paying some friggin cashiers at the bloody store to do the job.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
I don't get it though - what is wrong with trying different things and seeing if they work or not? If they don't, just pick what you had previously. What's the huge deal?

passwordoops 3y ago

You forgot the /s. And if you are serious, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying

morkalork 3y ago
Half serious, obviously too expensive to do today but there's huge advancements being made right now. I can see a startup building thing to make "Just Walk Out" stores work and getting bought out in next 5 years.
- passwordoops 3y ago
  So the bridge isn't the biggest one you'll find, but it gets the job done. Should suit your needs just fine
  - morkalork 3y ago
    Got any real arguments for why it's such an intractable problem or do you just like to be an ass for fun?
    - passwordoops 3y ago
      Partially like being an ass for fun. My first question is what does a GPT have to do with solving this problem? Honest question, because I don't see how a language model helps solve this, so if your do have a clear explanation it will be appreciated. I get they parse image data but have they demonstrated better accuracy for this use case (grocery items/food) than what was available when Amazon started their campaign? There's also the fact that, yes more data gives better results... To a point. At this stage, I'm inclined to think we've hit that point when it comes to deep learning models' ability for object recognition and we're in a plateau until a rational new approach (i.e. not deep learning) allows for another leap. My last is more socialogically rooted. Namely, it's pretty clear that since sama said he'd need $7 Trillion, AI peddlers have jumped the shark and we're seeing a slow motion deflation of the major claims, even concerning LLMs (don't get me wrong, very impressive tech, but no where near the heights and capabilities of the hucksters). For that reason I'm very inclined to lean towards skepticism when people claim they've found a solution by incremental improvements to a problem that's proven to be very, very difficult for a computer to handle. I think we're nearing a general plateau in deep learning and need the next foundational approach or what we could find ourselves in another deep AI winter. Any reason you think my skepticism is unfounded and why 5 years?
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
        My first question is what does a GPT have to do with solving this problem? Have you seen how effective transformer-based networks are at image recognition? They are literally better at reading bad cursive handwriting than I am, at this point. So yes, they can be pressed into service recognizing products being taken off of shelves and placed into carts or bags. "Just walk out" is a difficult problem but very much worth solving. We now have tools to attack it that nobody was even dreaming of when Amazon designed their current approach. Tools with near science-fiction levels of capability.