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> At its core, Tipi is designed to be easy to use and accessible for everyone > This guide will help you install Tipi on your server. Make sure your server is

> At its core, Tipi is designed to be easy to use and accessible for everyone > This guide will help you install Tipi on your server. Make sure your server is secured and you have followed basic security practices before installing Tipi. (e.g. firewall, ssh keys, root access, etc.) I love to see efforts like this, please keep it up. But expecting users to learn everything necessary to run a secure server is simply not going to achieve the stated goal of being accessible to everyone. We need something like an app that you can install on your laptop from the Windows store, with a quick OAuth flow to handle all networking through a service like Cloudflare Tunnel, and automatic updates and backups of all apps.

mike_hearn 3y ago
I toyed with the idea of creating something like that a year or so ago. I have a company that makes a tool which simplifies desktop development a ton, and that was previously the blocker to people trying to do this which is why there are so many products that claim to be targeted at everyone but start with a Linux CLI. So, can you make it brainless? Sure. Writing a nice desktop GUI that spins up a VM, logs in and administers it for you is easy. But ... who will buy it? The problem is that self-hosting isn't something that seems to solve a problem faced by non-technical people. Why do they want it? Privacy is not workable, because beyond most people just not caring, it's turtles all the way down: the moment you outsource administration of the service your data is accessible to those people. Whether that's a natty GUI or a cloud provider or a SaaS, unless it's a machine physically in your home someone can get at your data. And with supply chain attacks not even that is truly private really. Cost is clearly not viable. Companies give SaaS away for free. Even when they charge, other corps would rather pay Microsoft to store all their supposedly super-confidential internal docs, chats and emails than administer their own email servers. Usability: no. Big SaaS operations can invest in the best UI designers, so the self-hostable stuff is often derivative or behind. What's left?
WhyNotHugo 3y ago
If someone doesn’t want to learn how to secure a server, then they shouldn’t be self hosting anyway. Or, as a car analogy: if someone doesn’t want to learn how to drive safely, they shouldn’t be driving anyway.
AdrienPoupa 3y ago
I'd argue the easiest way to achieve this is to refrain from opening any ports, and using Tailscale to get remote access.
- apitman 3y ago
  Tailscale is awesome, but requiring anyone you want to share data or apps with to install Tailscale leaves a lot of simple interactions off the table.
- elashri 3y ago
  I doubt that with level of accessibility that the GP suggest that would be easy. It would be easy to have integrated firewall management that just expose 443/80 ports for reverse proxy and handle communication with docker networks. Also it can help setup vpn server and disallow accessing the server except via approved client. Someone suggested cosmos in the comment. I think this is the closest to what I am saying. However I am into self hosting for couple of years now with development experience so I would be biased. That would be probably different for average person without deep knowledge.
  - AdrienPoupa 3y ago
    But then, your firewall or Cosmos is exposed to the internet waiting for a 0day to be released, and chances here they will not be updated as soon as it comes out. VPN server is already what Tailscale does at this point. I'm not a shill by the way, just a regular user impressed by the ease of installation/use of their product.
deleted 3y ago
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mike_hearn 3y ago

I toyed with the idea of creating something like that a year or so ago. I have a company that makes a tool which simplifies desktop development a ton, and that was previously the blocker to people trying to do this which is why there are so many products that claim to be targeted at everyone but start with a Linux CLI. So, can you make it brainless? Sure. Writing a nice desktop GUI that spins up a VM, logs in and administers it for you is easy. But ... who will buy it? The problem is that self-hosting isn't something that seems to solve a problem faced by non-technical people. Why do they want it? Privacy is not workable, because beyond most people just not caring, it's turtles all the way down: the moment you outsource administration of the service your data is accessible to those people. Whether that's a natty GUI or a cloud provider or a SaaS, unless it's a machine physically in your home someone can get at your data. And with supply chain attacks not even that is truly private really. Cost is clearly not viable. Companies give SaaS away for free. Even when they charge, other corps would rather pay Microsoft to store all their supposedly super-confidential internal docs, chats and emails than administer their own email servers. Usability: no. Big SaaS operations can invest in the best UI designers, so the self-hostable stuff is often derivative or behind. What's left?

WhyNotHugo 3y ago

If someone doesn’t want to learn how to secure a server, then they shouldn’t be self hosting anyway. Or, as a car analogy: if someone doesn’t want to learn how to drive safely, they shouldn’t be driving anyway.

AdrienPoupa 3y ago

I'd argue the easiest way to achieve this is to refrain from opening any ports, and using Tailscale to get remote access.

apitman 3y ago
Tailscale is awesome, but requiring anyone you want to share data or apps with to install Tailscale leaves a lot of simple interactions off the table.
elashri 3y ago
I doubt that with level of accessibility that the GP suggest that would be easy. It would be easy to have integrated firewall management that just expose 443/80 ports for reverse proxy and handle communication with docker networks. Also it can help setup vpn server and disallow accessing the server except via approved client. Someone suggested cosmos in the comment. I think this is the closest to what I am saying. However I am into self hosting for couple of years now with development experience so I would be biased. That would be probably different for average person without deep knowledge.
- AdrienPoupa 3y ago
  But then, your firewall or Cosmos is exposed to the internet waiting for a 0day to be released, and chances here they will not be updated as soon as it comes out. VPN server is already what Tailscale does at this point. I'm not a shill by the way, just a regular user impressed by the ease of installation/use of their product.

deleted 3y ago

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