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>the used market took a big hit as well pissing off existing owners Oh no, poor wealthy Tesla owners loosing value on their car. /s Since when are ordinary car

>the used market took a big hit as well pissing off existing owners Oh no, poor wealthy Tesla owners loosing value on their car. /s Since when are ordinary cars appreciable investments? It's been well known cars tank in value, especially when you're an early adopter of new tech in a market that's in constant disruption. Your 1999 GeForce 256 also lost most of it's value in a year compared to other later GPUs, it's the nature of tech in a rapidly changing market. People who expect cars to hold/go up in value need to buy limite edition exotics, not mass produced commodities. EVs tanking in value on the used market is good for EV adoption as non wealthy people can afford them.

sandworm101 3y ago
>> good for EV adoption as non wealthy people can afford them. The sticker price isn't the issue. The issue is ironically fuel costs. Anyone who doesn't own their own house will rely on commercial chargers. In many circumstances a commercial charger can cost more per-mile than gasoline, and certainly they take much more time. So the non-rich, people who rent apartments and don't generally have spare time, cannot afford a used EV despite the sticker price. Not-rich people also generally own only one car. They cannot "afford" a vehicle that is expensive to fix, both in time and cash. A couple days waiting for a part is a couple days missed work. A few weeks without a car (ie most any Tesla repair) could mean a lost job.
rurp 3y ago
It's a matter of degrees. A car losing 25% of its value is much better than losing 75% over the same time period. How well a vehicle will hold its value is a factor that many people factor into their purchasing decisions.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >How well a vehicle will hold its value is a factor that many people factor into their purchasing decisions. Cars are commodities, like microwave ovens or washing machines, not houses. You won't get any sympathy because your risky economic bet didn't pan out the way you expected it to.
  - avgDev 3y ago
    One can buy a good brand like Lexus/Honda/Toyota or even BMW and be able to figure out their actual cost of ownership, depreciation is part of this. If a value of a vehicle can drop $40k over a period of a month, it is too volatile and I will never purchase such brand.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      >If a value of a vehicle can drop $40k over a period of a month, it is too volatile and I will never purchase such brand. And why is this bad? Who said a brand/company is entitled to a certain amount of sales just because they exist? Aren't we in capitalisms where it's sink or swim and the market/customer is right? If a product is volatile maybe it's not good and people should orient to other brands, no? If Tesla bins it, other better manufacturers will pick up the slack if the EV demand is there according to market forces. If the EV demand isn't there, maybe the EV hype was a bubble that was gonna pop sooner or later?
      - thwarted 3y ago
        Why are you interpreting bad as some kind of moral position? You seem to be purposely misinterpreting these comments to start an argument about economic systems. It's not bad that it happens, it's bad for Tesla if they are marketing their product as high-end/luxury while their product very obviously lacks the attributes, such as a stable/predictable value over time, that competitors' luxury products have. Someone deciding not to buy a product, for whatever reason, is the system working as intended. If Tesla can't produce a product people want to buy, Tesla will suffer the consequences, as they should. If they don't change their marketing or improve their product in the light of low sales, that's on them.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > You won't get any sympathy because your risky economic bet didn't pan out the way you expected it to. No one is offering sympathy, we're just saying that when buyers are considering a car, depreciation is a consideration. Because, you see, no one simply burns down a 3 year old car when they want a new one - they use whatever equity in their existing car as part of the payment of the new car.
ado__dev 3y ago
There's a huge difference between a car depreciating normally (which all of them do at varying rates) and what happened to the Model 3 depreciation curve over the last 12 months.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ado__dev 3y ago
    I don't get why you're being so hostile. Nobody is asking you to cry for Tesla owners or feel bad for them. If anything, this is more of a Tesla problem to solve as it reduces the likelihood of those wealthy buyers buying another Tesla in the future as it's another negative data point to consider. People want to know what they can expect when making a huge purchase. When the pros outweigh the cons, and I would say worse than average depreciation is a pretty big con, then buyers will look elsewhere.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      >I don't get why you're being so hostile. Where am I hostile? >and I would say worse than average depreciation is a pretty big con Depreciation accurately reflects current market demand. People need to take a good look at this and learn valuable lessons. If demand for Tesla dropped then it's Tesla's problem. If demand for EVs dropped maybe it's time to reflect on why it dropped.
      - thwarted 3y ago
        > Depreciation accurately reflects current market demand. People need to take a good look at this and learn valuable lessons. And that is exactly what "I won't buy a brand whose products have volatile value" is.
        Rinzler89 3y ago
kube-system 3y ago
You are arguing with a straw man. Managing depreciation on a vehicle has nothing to do with anyone expecting appreciation. Many people simply want to maintain a reasonable residual value for their next trade in, and/or maintain an above-water loan.
somerandomqaguy 3y ago
"Buying a car today is an investment into the future. I think the most profound thing is that if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset." -Elon Musk, 2019. Whether you believed him or not is a different matter but that's what he said at the time.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Remember when he said your Model 3 can act like a robotaxi and earn you money? Pepridge farm remembers.

sandworm101 3y ago

>> good for EV adoption as non wealthy people can afford them. The sticker price isn't the issue. The issue is ironically fuel costs. Anyone who doesn't own their own house will rely on commercial chargers. In many circumstances a commercial charger can cost more per-mile than gasoline, and certainly they take much more time. So the non-rich, people who rent apartments and don't generally have spare time, cannot afford a used EV despite the sticker price. Not-rich people also generally own only one car. They cannot "afford" a vehicle that is expensive to fix, both in time and cash. A couple days waiting for a part is a couple days missed work. A few weeks without a car (ie most any Tesla repair) could mean a lost job.

rurp 3y ago

It's a matter of degrees. A car losing 25% of its value is much better than losing 75% over the same time period. How well a vehicle will hold its value is a factor that many people factor into their purchasing decisions.

Rinzler89 3y ago
>How well a vehicle will hold its value is a factor that many people factor into their purchasing decisions. Cars are commodities, like microwave ovens or washing machines, not houses. You won't get any sympathy because your risky economic bet didn't pan out the way you expected it to.
- avgDev 3y ago
  One can buy a good brand like Lexus/Honda/Toyota or even BMW and be able to figure out their actual cost of ownership, depreciation is part of this. If a value of a vehicle can drop $40k over a period of a month, it is too volatile and I will never purchase such brand.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >If a value of a vehicle can drop $40k over a period of a month, it is too volatile and I will never purchase such brand. And why is this bad? Who said a brand/company is entitled to a certain amount of sales just because they exist? Aren't we in capitalisms where it's sink or swim and the market/customer is right? If a product is volatile maybe it's not good and people should orient to other brands, no? If Tesla bins it, other better manufacturers will pick up the slack if the EV demand is there according to market forces. If the EV demand isn't there, maybe the EV hype was a bubble that was gonna pop sooner or later?
    - thwarted 3y ago
      Why are you interpreting bad as some kind of moral position? You seem to be purposely misinterpreting these comments to start an argument about economic systems. It's not bad that it happens, it's bad for Tesla if they are marketing their product as high-end/luxury while their product very obviously lacks the attributes, such as a stable/predictable value over time, that competitors' luxury products have. Someone deciding not to buy a product, for whatever reason, is the system working as intended. If Tesla can't produce a product people want to buy, Tesla will suffer the consequences, as they should. If they don't change their marketing or improve their product in the light of low sales, that's on them.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > You won't get any sympathy because your risky economic bet didn't pan out the way you expected it to. No one is offering sympathy, we're just saying that when buyers are considering a car, depreciation is a consideration. Because, you see, no one simply burns down a 3 year old car when they want a new one - they use whatever equity in their existing car as part of the payment of the new car.

ado__dev 3y ago

There's a huge difference between a car depreciating normally (which all of them do at varying rates) and what happened to the Model 3 depreciation curve over the last 12 months.

Rinzler89 3y ago
[flagged]
- ado__dev 3y ago
  I don't get why you're being so hostile. Nobody is asking you to cry for Tesla owners or feel bad for them. If anything, this is more of a Tesla problem to solve as it reduces the likelihood of those wealthy buyers buying another Tesla in the future as it's another negative data point to consider. People want to know what they can expect when making a huge purchase. When the pros outweigh the cons, and I would say worse than average depreciation is a pretty big con, then buyers will look elsewhere.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >I don't get why you're being so hostile. Where am I hostile? >and I would say worse than average depreciation is a pretty big con Depreciation accurately reflects current market demand. People need to take a good look at this and learn valuable lessons. If demand for Tesla dropped then it's Tesla's problem. If demand for EVs dropped maybe it's time to reflect on why it dropped.
    - thwarted 3y ago
      > Depreciation accurately reflects current market demand. People need to take a good look at this and learn valuable lessons. And that is exactly what "I won't buy a brand whose products have volatile value" is.
      - Rinzler89 3y ago

kube-system 3y ago

You are arguing with a straw man. Managing depreciation on a vehicle has nothing to do with anyone expecting appreciation. Many people simply want to maintain a reasonable residual value for their next trade in, and/or maintain an above-water loan.

somerandomqaguy 3y ago

"Buying a car today is an investment into the future. I think the most profound thing is that if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset." -Elon Musk, 2019. Whether you believed him or not is a different matter but that's what he said at the time.

Rinzler89 3y ago
Remember when he said your Model 3 can act like a robotaxi and earn you money? Pepridge farm remembers.