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The issue of finding a location that has dramatic elevation change, a basin capable of storing vast amounts of water, and a suitable source/sink for pumping mak

The issue of finding a location that has dramatic elevation change, a basin capable of storing vast amounts of water, and a suitable source/sink for pumping make pumped hydro difficult to deploy. Then there are additional logistics challenges such as environmental damage and proximity to human settlements for maintenance and engineering teams (prior challenges mean you don't really get to select the locations). Heat sinks meanwhile can be built wherever you have a big rock by drilling some holes. Additionally, gravity definitely does lose stored energy in its "stable state", through evaporation and water entering the water table. Losses depend on geology and local climate, but it's not negligible. Not to say that pumped hydro is a bad technology, it's just got it's own challenges and uses. It's most applicable in the form of electrical grid storage. But specifically on the scale of keeping towns and cities warm, heatsinks outperform almost across the board.

sandworm101 3y ago
And, if you inundate an area of wilderness to create reservoir you have to also count the lost carbon capture of the growing plants, and the significant methane emissions of the now dead and rotting plant matter under the water. In dry deserts this may be negligible, but the mountains where people most want to install hydro projects are generally very forested.
pfdietz 3y ago
The "vast basin" part of that is an exaggeration. Look at https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/ https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/ and the sizes of the upper and lower reservoirs there. This is to be a 8 GWh, 1 GW facility.
- mecsred 3y ago
  "vast" is a pretty non specific word so I can maybe see why you would think that? I feel like it's pretty obvious from context I'm not talking about an inland sea here. The quoted 5000 "acre-feet" in that project is a considerable amount of water for a man-made structure! Either way, the details page[1] supports all of my above points. It even comments on the page how rare it is to find a suitable site like the one they've chosen. [1]https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/project-details https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/project-details
- SECProto 3y ago
  > This is to be a 8 GWh, 1 GW facility That is big for time-shifting daily energy usage, but way too small for seasonal energy storage
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    Right. PHES is not a good fit for seasonal storage.

sandworm101 3y ago

And, if you inundate an area of wilderness to create reservoir you have to also count the lost carbon capture of the growing plants, and the significant methane emissions of the now dead and rotting plant matter under the water. In dry deserts this may be negligible, but the mountains where people most want to install hydro projects are generally very forested.

pfdietz 3y ago

The "vast basin" part of that is an exaggeration. Look at https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/ https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/ and the sizes of the upper and lower reservoirs there. This is to be a 8 GWh, 1 GW facility.

mecsred 3y ago
"vast" is a pretty non specific word so I can maybe see why you would think that? I feel like it's pretty obvious from context I'm not talking about an inland sea here. The quoted 5000 "acre-feet" in that project is a considerable amount of water for a man-made structure! Either way, the details page[1] supports all of my above points. It even comments on the page how rare it is to find a suitable site like the one they've chosen. [1]https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/project-details https://www.whitepinepumpedstorage.com/project-details
SECProto 3y ago
> This is to be a 8 GWh, 1 GW facility That is big for time-shifting daily energy usage, but way too small for seasonal energy storage
- pfdietz 3y ago
  Right. PHES is not a good fit for seasonal storage.