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And I also expect that, very soon, we won't be able to tell them apart anymore (like those wine experts that fail to detect the good wines if blindfolded).

by haolez 3y ago

Etheryte 3y ago
That fail to detect even whether they're having white wine or red wine.*
- Starman_Jones 3y ago
  This myth is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the experiment conducted. The conclusion of the experiment was that the vocabulary used to describe wine is subjective, and that the chosen descriptors are most heavily influenced by the color of wine, the perceived cost of the wine, and the taster's opinion of whether it was a good wine or not. I've participated in a blind wine tasting, and it was trivially easy for even complete amateurs to guess the right color of wine 100% of the time.
- arketyp 3y ago
  I've heard this, and I would have been inclined to believe it. But then I watched the documentary Somm about the journey of a couple of friends reaching for the highest rankings of sommeliers. They could identify grapes, regions and year with striking accuracy. I just don't see how you could do that and then not be able to tell white and red wine apart.
  - vundercind 3y ago
    I barely know what I’m doing with wine but am 100% sure I could at least tell you which are whites and which reds if you lined up a typical Chardonnay, a typical Pinot Grigio, a typical cab sauv, and a typical Pinot noir. I am certain there exist weird wines that could fool me (I’ve had a few really weird wines) but typical shit from the grocery store, I’m gonna be able to tell at least that much. I might even ID them more precisely than red or white. It’s not exactly subtle… Then again I don’t have a clue how someone could fail to tell which is coke and which Pepsi in the “Pepsi challenge”. They’re wildly different flavors. I can tell by smell alone.
    - n4r9 3y ago
      I vaguely remember looking into this before, and it turned out that the tasters were being told (incorrectly) that it was a red wine, and asked to describe the flavour profile. They then used tasting terms more frequently associated with reds than with whites, and didn't question what they were told. So it's less a case of "they cannot distinguish red from white" and more a case of "they went along with a suggested classification". I feel like this is a weaker result, although it's still a little surprising.
      - arketyp 3y ago
        Thanks. Together with GP's point about the possibility of weird wines, it seems reasonable that one could go along quite far on a false premise.
      - notnaut 3y ago
        My feeling is there is the high level classification which is quite difficult to fuck up. After that it’s all adjectives and analogues, which is the fluffed up phoniness that inherently presents itself in the process of converting our subjective experiences of physical reality into abstract symbols.
      - yongjik 3y ago
        Yeah, but that still shows people's perception of wine is barely above noise level, if it can be so easily misled. For comparison, imagine someone showing a piece of Picasso to art critics and saying "Could you please describe the artistic significance of this painting by da Vinci?" The critics won't start using terms commonly reserved for Renaissance era; they'll say "What the fuck are you talking about, this isn't da Vinci."
        wizzwizz4 3y ago
        Both artists are dead. It is possible to learn all of their paintings. It is not possible to learn all of the wines.
        deleted 3y ago
  - gamblor956 3y ago
    I rarely drink wine (less than 1x every few years) and I can tell the difference between a red wine and a white wine, and subcategories of red wines (and I do specifically mean the difference, so that means only when compared to another wine). The hard part is identifying the type of wine, but many of my wine-drinking friends can do with ease. We've tried the "test," having me or someone else randomly purchase wines from the closest store and then serving random samples to them while they're blindfolded. They're able to identify the specific variety more than 4/5 of the time.
    - svachalek 3y ago
      Yeah, I'm sure a lot of these tasters are overly pretentious. But some people are willing to go the opposite extreme and think people can't taste anything. Can anyone tell the difference between Coke and Sprite? Between Coke and Pepsi? Coke and Diet Coke? Of course we can. The difference between a typical pinot noir, syrah, or cabernet sauvignon is not something it takes magic powers to differentiate. Now specific years, wineries, etc, now that raises questions.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  This one only shows you poor “expertise” more than anything, as it is standard exercise while training to become a wine expert in France (they also give students white wine that have been red-colored or otherwise tempered with), so I wouldn't expect any legit expert to be fooled this way. Though it's true that with some wines it can be tough initially for enlightened amateurs. Source: my wife's godfather did the studies for that[1] two years ago. [1]: https://www.isvv.u-bordeaux.fr/fr/diplome-universitaire-daptitude-a-la-degustation-d-u-a-d?format=html https://www.isvv.u-bordeaux.fr/fr/diplome-universitaire-dapt...
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  I believed this myth until I actually tried it blind with a handful of wine novices, and every one could tell them apart.
n4r9 3y ago
As far as I can tell, AI image generation still struggles with some things after many years of research and is often detectable. Perhaps vocals is easier though.
- ancientworldnow 3y ago
  It's like cgi, you only recognize bad examples of it while the good ones go right past you. I've got plenty of ai generations that fool professional photo retouchers - it just takes more time and some custom tooling.
  - throwup238 3y ago
    > I've got plenty of ai generations that fool professional photo retouchers - it just takes more time and some custom tooling. What’s a good place to find out the SOTA of the custom tooling and workflow?
    - zzzzzzzzzz10 3y ago
      Comfyui + civitai. 4chan and reddit threads if you want to go deep
  - ptx 3y ago
    > It's like cgi Right. Full of code injection vulnerabilities.
- VelesDude 3y ago
  From audio video editing experience years back, it is much easier to slip some cheap audio cuts past people than visual ones.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  This already sounds like something I would have listened to in the 90s, except with too much autotune.
- Legend2440 3y ago
  "many years" lol, midjourney only came out like a year and a half ago and the quality has quadrupled in that time.
gosub100 3y ago
The non-singing TTS are barely discernible now. I watch a lot of narration-heavy edu-tainment on YouTube and often the only way I can detect TTS is the consistent monotone and uniform syllable cadence. There can be 15 minutes before a single mispronounced word is spoken. That could be a preview of what's to come with AI video.
jackspratts 3y ago
if by very soon you mean already then. yeah. i can't anyway, and i'm in the business.- js. https://soundcloud.com/rs-539916550/soul-of-the-machine?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Frs-539916550%252Fsoul-of-the-machine https://soundcloud.com/rs-539916550/soul-of-the-machine?utm_...

And I also expect that, very soon, we won't be able to tell them apart anymore (like those wine experts that fail to detect the good wines if blindfolded).

by haolez 3y ago

And I also expect that, very soon, we won't be able to tell them apart anymore (like those wine experts that fail to detect the good wines if blindfolded).

Etheryte 3y ago

That fail to detect even whether they're having white wine or red wine.*

Starman_Jones 3y ago
This myth is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the experiment conducted. The conclusion of the experiment was that the vocabulary used to describe wine is subjective, and that the chosen descriptors are most heavily influenced by the color of wine, the perceived cost of the wine, and the taster's opinion of whether it was a good wine or not. I've participated in a blind wine tasting, and it was trivially easy for even complete amateurs to guess the right color of wine 100% of the time.
arketyp 3y ago
I've heard this, and I would have been inclined to believe it. But then I watched the documentary Somm about the journey of a couple of friends reaching for the highest rankings of sommeliers. They could identify grapes, regions and year with striking accuracy. I just don't see how you could do that and then not be able to tell white and red wine apart.
- vundercind 3y ago
  I barely know what I’m doing with wine but am 100% sure I could at least tell you which are whites and which reds if you lined up a typical Chardonnay, a typical Pinot Grigio, a typical cab sauv, and a typical Pinot noir. I am certain there exist weird wines that could fool me (I’ve had a few really weird wines) but typical shit from the grocery store, I’m gonna be able to tell at least that much. I might even ID them more precisely than red or white. It’s not exactly subtle… Then again I don’t have a clue how someone could fail to tell which is coke and which Pepsi in the “Pepsi challenge”. They’re wildly different flavors. I can tell by smell alone.
  - n4r9 3y ago
    I vaguely remember looking into this before, and it turned out that the tasters were being told (incorrectly) that it was a red wine, and asked to describe the flavour profile. They then used tasting terms more frequently associated with reds than with whites, and didn't question what they were told. So it's less a case of "they cannot distinguish red from white" and more a case of "they went along with a suggested classification". I feel like this is a weaker result, although it's still a little surprising.
    - arketyp 3y ago
      Thanks. Together with GP's point about the possibility of weird wines, it seems reasonable that one could go along quite far on a false premise.
    - notnaut 3y ago
      My feeling is there is the high level classification which is quite difficult to fuck up. After that it’s all adjectives and analogues, which is the fluffed up phoniness that inherently presents itself in the process of converting our subjective experiences of physical reality into abstract symbols.
    - yongjik 3y ago
      Yeah, but that still shows people's perception of wine is barely above noise level, if it can be so easily misled. For comparison, imagine someone showing a piece of Picasso to art critics and saying "Could you please describe the artistic significance of this painting by da Vinci?" The critics won't start using terms commonly reserved for Renaissance era; they'll say "What the fuck are you talking about, this isn't da Vinci."
      - wizzwizz4 3y ago
        Both artists are dead. It is possible to learn all of their paintings. It is not possible to learn all of the wines.
        deleted 3y ago
- gamblor956 3y ago
  I rarely drink wine (less than 1x every few years) and I can tell the difference between a red wine and a white wine, and subcategories of red wines (and I do specifically mean the difference, so that means only when compared to another wine). The hard part is identifying the type of wine, but many of my wine-drinking friends can do with ease. We've tried the "test," having me or someone else randomly purchase wines from the closest store and then serving random samples to them while they're blindfolded. They're able to identify the specific variety more than 4/5 of the time.
  - svachalek 3y ago
    Yeah, I'm sure a lot of these tasters are overly pretentious. But some people are willing to go the opposite extreme and think people can't taste anything. Can anyone tell the difference between Coke and Sprite? Between Coke and Pepsi? Coke and Diet Coke? Of course we can. The difference between a typical pinot noir, syrah, or cabernet sauvignon is not something it takes magic powers to differentiate. Now specific years, wineries, etc, now that raises questions.
littlestymaar 3y ago
This one only shows you poor “expertise” more than anything, as it is standard exercise while training to become a wine expert in France (they also give students white wine that have been red-colored or otherwise tempered with), so I wouldn't expect any legit expert to be fooled this way. Though it's true that with some wines it can be tough initially for enlightened amateurs. Source: my wife's godfather did the studies for that[1] two years ago. [1]: https://www.isvv.u-bordeaux.fr/fr/diplome-universitaire-daptitude-a-la-degustation-d-u-a-d?format=html https://www.isvv.u-bordeaux.fr/fr/diplome-universitaire-dapt...
reducesuffering 3y ago
I believed this myth until I actually tried it blind with a handful of wine novices, and every one could tell them apart.

n4r9 3y ago

As far as I can tell, AI image generation still struggles with some things after many years of research and is often detectable. Perhaps vocals is easier though.

ancientworldnow 3y ago
It's like cgi, you only recognize bad examples of it while the good ones go right past you. I've got plenty of ai generations that fool professional photo retouchers - it just takes more time and some custom tooling.
- throwup238 3y ago
  > I've got plenty of ai generations that fool professional photo retouchers - it just takes more time and some custom tooling. What’s a good place to find out the SOTA of the custom tooling and workflow?
  - zzzzzzzzzz10 3y ago
    Comfyui + civitai. 4chan and reddit threads if you want to go deep
- ptx 3y ago
  > It's like cgi Right. Full of code injection vulnerabilities.
VelesDude 3y ago
From audio video editing experience years back, it is much easier to slip some cheap audio cuts past people than visual ones.
Paul-Craft 3y ago
This already sounds like something I would have listened to in the 90s, except with too much autotune.
Legend2440 3y ago
"many years" lol, midjourney only came out like a year and a half ago and the quality has quadrupled in that time.

gosub100 3y ago

The non-singing TTS are barely discernible now. I watch a lot of narration-heavy edu-tainment on YouTube and often the only way I can detect TTS is the consistent monotone and uniform syllable cadence. There can be 15 minutes before a single mispronounced word is spoken. That could be a preview of what's to come with AI video.

jackspratts 3y ago

if by very soon you mean already then. yeah. i can't anyway, and i'm in the business.- js. https://soundcloud.com/rs-539916550/soul-of-the-machine?utm_source=clipboard&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=widget&utm_content=https%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Frs-539916550%252Fsoul-of-the-machine https://soundcloud.com/rs-539916550/soul-of-the-machine?utm_...