7 ms·

"Pink slime" local news outlets erupt all over US as election nears

29 points by carride 3y ago

koolba 3y ago
If you’ve already had lunch today, here’s a fun read on the origin of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime
ohnoitsahuman 3y ago
Can confirm: We're spinning up a local newspaper site that covers the crime, decay and the hope filled people that are correcting the problems. The local incumbent paper refuses to cover any of it. Of course, this is considered right-wing.
- latchkey 3y ago
  > Of course, this is considered right-wing. In what way? You stated something generic without really explaining it. For example, maybe at the end of all your articles you have an advertisement for Trump? That's effectively what this pink slime does.
  - ohnoitsahuman 3y ago
    Where were are, there are no trump-aligned politicians that have any chance of getting in office. Usually we're highlighting a liberal who what's to fix things for the working class. As opposed to a leftist that wants to control things for the activist class.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      Good to here that no Trump aligned politicians have any chance.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      > highlighting a liberal who what's to fix things for the working class. As opposed to a leftist that wants to control things for the activist class. That, without more information, sounds VERY partisan to me. Painting the left as wanting control when some of their most salient policies are things like universal healthcare and higher taxes for billionaires, or getting more funding for schools in disadvantaged communities, or even making sure police does not disproportionately dispenses violence against specific communities seems disingenuous.
      - sickofparadox 3y ago
        This is, of course, ignoring other leftist policies more relevant to crime such as cashless bail, not prosecuting for "petty" crime, releasing multiple conviction violent criminals early, fighting against institutionalization for mentally ill homeless, and essentially ignoring nuisance crime. (Next comes the part where you say "these aren't leftist policies," as if I have conjured these up out of fiction.)
        stonogo 3y ago
        "Universal health care" is a phrase that basically means "everyone is on medicare" by now and to a right-wing listener is synonymous with losing control of your health care decisions. "Institutionalization" is a weird synonym for "imprisonment" to any left-wing listener, since those are the only "institutions" we put homeless people in, mentally ill or not. This is the kind of bullshit fight that makes me miss the fairness doctrine in media. People still disagreed, but they at least focused on making their case instead of misrepresenting the other side. Now not only does the fight go on, it's full of shitty rhetorical tricks designed to appeal to emotions instead of any kind of actual policymaking. It's exhausting and I had hoped Hacker News to be a sanctuary from this.
        sickofparadox 3y ago
        Institutionalization necessarily involves imprisonment, but should not be limited to just that, I don't know why you are considering this to be some rhetorical flourish. I am not misrepresenting anyone, nor am I playing word games. Homeless people are often experiencing chronic, severe mental health issues and should be put into a psych ward that helps them regain control of their lives. They will not do this on their own, so this is where the rest of society comes in, say "yes we do actually know better than you," and take them off the street.
- thinkingtoilet 3y ago
  Perhaps it's considered right-wing not because of the topic, but the angle on which you cover the topic. In my experience, the most partisan people lack self-awareness about how partisan they are and your post sort of smells like that. Of course, I could be wrong.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    Their response to me below is equally baffling.
  - uaserussia 3y ago
    [dead]
ImJamal 3y ago
The article mentions NewsGuard rated these outlets. It is important to note that the former CIA director, Michael Hayden, is involved. Maybe NewsGuard is legitimate, but having a CIA director on the board is very weird.
- garrickvanburen 3y ago
  define weird?
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    The CIA is an organization that specializes in destabilizing governments. That's how it's weird.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      The CIA destabilises (not only - it also props up some) foreign governments to further US interests. In the US it's the FBI's job to thwart the efforts of foreign governments (who support these outlets directly and indirectly) to manipulate US elections to their interests (which might or not align with the interests of Americans). All the big ones play this game with everyone eles. Trust me. I grew up in a US-made military dictatorship because the US didn't like the idea of a less US-aligned democratic government.
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        I'm fully aware that this is how statecraft works. It's still disturbing to see CIA influence on a US-centric "fact-checking" organization.
        rbanffy 3y ago
        I take it as a sign the CIA believes some "news" outlets in the US are fronts for foreign threats and at least part of their command structure is outside FBI's jurisdiction. Or just that someone decided to hire a seemingly competent intelligence officer for a fact-checking organisation.
palencharizard 3y ago
One of my bigger concerns with AI is its potential to spread misinformation, but does anyone know of folks using the models for detecting it? I'm not into the AI hype but I feel that's one area that has some potential benefit.
- krapp 3y ago
  I find trusting AI to detect misinformation to present essentially the same problem as using AI to spread it - both cases require implicit trust in an untrustworthy system, and both remove the impetus to educate people and have them practice critical thinking and skepticism (as opposed to cynicism and contrarianism) themselves. Although there was a paper posted here recently that suggested AI was effective at deprogramming conspiracy theory[0,1]. No idea about its credibility but claims like being able to reduce belief in conspiracy theory by "20%" seem iffy to me. The most effective system I've seen so far, ironically (given who now runs the site) is the community notes on Twitter. But even that gets gamed by activists and bad faith actors. Still I think removing human beings from the loop isn't always helpful. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927578 [1]https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/xcwdn https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/xcwdn
TrackerFF 3y ago
what is difficult, IMO, is the know whether or not you're seeing news that have been carefully curated for you, with some partisan motive - or if it's just some recommendation algorithm that's serving you stuff it thinks you will like. I've seen some news sites that will seemingly push (news) content on the front-page that is aligned with the stuff you read most about. So if such a site only pushes, say, immigration crisis news - is it because you have a history of clicking on such articles, or is it some partisan news website that is pushing negative stories regarding immigration?
ryandrake 3y ago
For those who remember, weren't these sites actually the origin of the term "Fake News" back in 2016, before you-know-who quickly co-opted the term to use it against actual journalists? Before that, that's what these hastily-erected, phony sites were called.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Yeah, then everyone kind of realized most journalists are partisan.
  - krapp 3y ago
    Except "fake news" didn't originally refer to the partisan bias of journalists, but to explicitly and purposely false and misleading information presented as legitimate news. Equating partisan bias to falsehood by way of a leftist media conspiracy was part of the Trump administration's redefinition of the term.
    - rbanffy 3y ago
      > Equating partisan bias to falsehood by way of a leftist media conspiracy was part of the Trump administration's redefinition of the term. Yup. We should never forget the Bowling Green Massacre.
strict9 3y ago
This problem isn't just websites and social media. Not mentioned in the article but pink slime sites also send out printed newspapers that look like what traditional newspapers look like except a lot thinner. It arrives in your mailbox and plenty of people have no idea it's a complete partisan advertisement disguised as news. Some assume it's just partisan news like most news is now. They saturate mailboxes and are probably effective at reaching older voters who are much more likely to vote.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  Nobody seems to remember that the original newspapers were also...partisan tripe.
locopati 3y ago
The article suggests that this is primarily a right-wing phenomenon and then throws a mention about a left-wing group without any indication of how much money is involved in each direction or whether the left-wing version is spewing the same kinds of lies the right-wing does all the time. It's this kind of both-sidesing of fascism that makea media in the US untrustworthy.

29 points by carride 3y ago

If you’ve already had lunch today, here’s a fun read on the origin of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime

ohnoitsahuman 3y ago

Can confirm: We're spinning up a local newspaper site that covers the crime, decay and the hope filled people that are correcting the problems. The local incumbent paper refuses to cover any of it. Of course, this is considered right-wing.

latchkey 3y ago
> Of course, this is considered right-wing. In what way? You stated something generic without really explaining it. For example, maybe at the end of all your articles you have an advertisement for Trump? That's effectively what this pink slime does.
- ohnoitsahuman 3y ago
  Where were are, there are no trump-aligned politicians that have any chance of getting in office. Usually we're highlighting a liberal who what's to fix things for the working class. As opposed to a leftist that wants to control things for the activist class.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    Good to here that no Trump aligned politicians have any chance.
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    > highlighting a liberal who what's to fix things for the working class. As opposed to a leftist that wants to control things for the activist class. That, without more information, sounds VERY partisan to me. Painting the left as wanting control when some of their most salient policies are things like universal healthcare and higher taxes for billionaires, or getting more funding for schools in disadvantaged communities, or even making sure police does not disproportionately dispenses violence against specific communities seems disingenuous.
    - sickofparadox 3y ago
      This is, of course, ignoring other leftist policies more relevant to crime such as cashless bail, not prosecuting for "petty" crime, releasing multiple conviction violent criminals early, fighting against institutionalization for mentally ill homeless, and essentially ignoring nuisance crime. (Next comes the part where you say "these aren't leftist policies," as if I have conjured these up out of fiction.)
      - stonogo 3y ago
        "Universal health care" is a phrase that basically means "everyone is on medicare" by now and to a right-wing listener is synonymous with losing control of your health care decisions. "Institutionalization" is a weird synonym for "imprisonment" to any left-wing listener, since those are the only "institutions" we put homeless people in, mentally ill or not. This is the kind of bullshit fight that makes me miss the fairness doctrine in media. People still disagreed, but they at least focused on making their case instead of misrepresenting the other side. Now not only does the fight go on, it's full of shitty rhetorical tricks designed to appeal to emotions instead of any kind of actual policymaking. It's exhausting and I had hoped Hacker News to be a sanctuary from this.
        sickofparadox 3y ago
        Institutionalization necessarily involves imprisonment, but should not be limited to just that, I don't know why you are considering this to be some rhetorical flourish. I am not misrepresenting anyone, nor am I playing word games. Homeless people are often experiencing chronic, severe mental health issues and should be put into a psych ward that helps them regain control of their lives. They will not do this on their own, so this is where the rest of society comes in, say "yes we do actually know better than you," and take them off the street.
thinkingtoilet 3y ago
Perhaps it's considered right-wing not because of the topic, but the angle on which you cover the topic. In my experience, the most partisan people lack self-awareness about how partisan they are and your post sort of smells like that. Of course, I could be wrong.
- latchkey 3y ago
  Their response to me below is equally baffling.
- uaserussia 3y ago
  [dead]

ImJamal 3y ago

The article mentions NewsGuard rated these outlets. It is important to note that the former CIA director, Michael Hayden, is involved. Maybe NewsGuard is legitimate, but having a CIA director on the board is very weird.

garrickvanburen 3y ago
define weird?
- rpmisms 3y ago
  The CIA is an organization that specializes in destabilizing governments. That's how it's weird.
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    The CIA destabilises (not only - it also props up some) foreign governments to further US interests. In the US it's the FBI's job to thwart the efforts of foreign governments (who support these outlets directly and indirectly) to manipulate US elections to their interests (which might or not align with the interests of Americans). All the big ones play this game with everyone eles. Trust me. I grew up in a US-made military dictatorship because the US didn't like the idea of a less US-aligned democratic government.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      I'm fully aware that this is how statecraft works. It's still disturbing to see CIA influence on a US-centric "fact-checking" organization.
      - rbanffy 3y ago
        I take it as a sign the CIA believes some "news" outlets in the US are fronts for foreign threats and at least part of their command structure is outside FBI's jurisdiction. Or just that someone decided to hire a seemingly competent intelligence officer for a fact-checking organisation.

palencharizard 3y ago

One of my bigger concerns with AI is its potential to spread misinformation, but does anyone know of folks using the models for detecting it? I'm not into the AI hype but I feel that's one area that has some potential benefit.

krapp 3y ago
I find trusting AI to detect misinformation to present essentially the same problem as using AI to spread it - both cases require implicit trust in an untrustworthy system, and both remove the impetus to educate people and have them practice critical thinking and skepticism (as opposed to cynicism and contrarianism) themselves. Although there was a paper posted here recently that suggested AI was effective at deprogramming conspiracy theory[0,1]. No idea about its credibility but claims like being able to reduce belief in conspiracy theory by "20%" seem iffy to me. The most effective system I've seen so far, ironically (given who now runs the site) is the community notes on Twitter. But even that gets gamed by activists and bad faith actors. Still I think removing human beings from the loop isn't always helpful. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927578 [1]https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/xcwdn https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/xcwdn

TrackerFF 3y ago

what is difficult, IMO, is the know whether or not you're seeing news that have been carefully curated for you, with some partisan motive - or if it's just some recommendation algorithm that's serving you stuff it thinks you will like. I've seen some news sites that will seemingly push (news) content on the front-page that is aligned with the stuff you read most about. So if such a site only pushes, say, immigration crisis news - is it because you have a history of clicking on such articles, or is it some partisan news website that is pushing negative stories regarding immigration?

ryandrake 3y ago

For those who remember, weren't these sites actually the origin of the term "Fake News" back in 2016, before you-know-who quickly co-opted the term to use it against actual journalists? Before that, that's what these hastily-erected, phony sites were called.

kelipso 3y ago
Yeah, then everyone kind of realized most journalists are partisan.
- krapp 3y ago
  Except "fake news" didn't originally refer to the partisan bias of journalists, but to explicitly and purposely false and misleading information presented as legitimate news. Equating partisan bias to falsehood by way of a leftist media conspiracy was part of the Trump administration's redefinition of the term.
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    > Equating partisan bias to falsehood by way of a leftist media conspiracy was part of the Trump administration's redefinition of the term. Yup. We should never forget the Bowling Green Massacre.

strict9 3y ago

This problem isn't just websites and social media. Not mentioned in the article but pink slime sites also send out printed newspapers that look like what traditional newspapers look like except a lot thinner. It arrives in your mailbox and plenty of people have no idea it's a complete partisan advertisement disguised as news. Some assume it's just partisan news like most news is now. They saturate mailboxes and are probably effective at reaching older voters who are much more likely to vote.

rokkitmensch 3y ago
Nobody seems to remember that the original newspapers were also...partisan tripe.

locopati 3y ago

The article suggests that this is primarily a right-wing phenomenon and then throws a mention about a left-wing group without any indication of how much money is involved in each direction or whether the left-wing version is spewing the same kinds of lies the right-wing does all the time. It's this kind of both-sidesing of fascism that makea media in the US untrustworthy.