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PFAS Used in Grease-Proofing Agents for Food Packaging No Longer Sold
- SmellTheGlove 3y agoWhat are they using now instead of PFAS?
- HPsquared 3y agoI've got some nonstick greaseproof paper in the cupboard that's apparently lined with silicone.
- hammock 3y agoParchment paper, butcher paper etc can have a variety of different treatments used. PFAS is a common one. Silicone or a combination of PFAS and silicone is another one. Acid treated without a coating is less common although that was the original parchment paper back in the day. Personally, I use "If you care" brand from whole foods which has been independently tested to have the least PFAS. This voluntary phase-out doesn't include parchment paper you use at home. It's for food packaging
- non-chalad 3y ago> Shorter chain-length PFAS telomeric substances have been submitted to EPA for review as alternatives for a variety of uses including, for example, textile, carpet and paper additive uses and tile surface treatments. 1. https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/new-chemicals-program-review-alternatives-pfoa-and https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-t...
- hammock 3y agoThat's incorrect. The voluntary phase-out covers all PFAS inclusive of shorter-chain molecules. The most likely replacement are food-grade silicone alternatives. Silicone alternatives are also being used in waterproofing rain jackets, etc. (see Patagonia for example, who started by using C6, shorter chain PFAS, instead of C8, but now has switched to PFAS-free)
- goda90 3y agoThis is from Feb 28th, but as discussed here 5 days ago[0], a US appeals court blocked this ban. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39875053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39875053
- AzzyHN 3y agoOf course they did...
- hammock 3y agoThat's different. This is a voluntary phase-out of PFAS impregnated paper and paperboard (the infamous pizza boxes and burger wrappers)
- hinkley 3y agoLiability perhaps? Voluntary phase out might buy you some goodwill with judge and jury when the class action suits roll in.
- klabb3 3y agoQuestion: didn’t DuPont and friends just launch “new products” with minor alterations to the chemical composition in order to clear the branding? I recall the newer substitutes were also “biopersistent” carbo-flourides or whatever they’re called.
- hammock 3y agoIf it's PFAS-free, then there is no fluoropolymer in it. Shorter chain PFAS molecules, with shorter half-lives, have been and are still being explored as alternatives, for other use cases. This announcement applies only to the sale of food-contact paper and paperboard where PFAS was used fro grease-proofing. The comments on this make me realize how far the information gap is that must be closed with the pubic. The media are not doing a great job
- smallmancontrov 3y agoYeah, this part feels more meaningful: FDA is working towards a validated analytical method that would allow us to monitor the market for these food contact substances in food packaging. The best time to do this was 50 years ago, but the second best time is now.
- theGnuMe 3y agoThe best strategy is to do what the EU does and ban them unless proven safe.
- b112 3y agoProven safe is wrought with specifics though. Safe for mice? Because that's how a lot of testing is done. Or like teflon which is perfectly safe until it reaches an easy-to-reach stovetop temp, and then it kills budgies in your home, and turns to poison in the pan? Teflon passed, knowing it was deadly after being too hot, with the assumption that "people won't accidentally let a pan get too hot". Suuure, no one will get distracted by kids , the phone, someone at the door, etc. Suuure, no one will make a mistake in years of use! Somewhat is "safe"? I agree it would be a nice thing, but are we capable of that? You and I, maybe. But our agencies? Dunno.
- pjs_ 3y ago[flagged]
- ninininino 3y agoWhat does culture war / identity politics have to do with environmental protections, pollution, and cancer prevention? Seeing the world through a bit of a reductionist lens, no? All policy questions come down to "woke" and "anti-woke"?
- jabroni_salad 3y agogive yourself turbocancer to own the libs, I guess. People who would like there to be less poison in the ecosystem have been getting very flattering labels ever since they started. the woke/unwoke thing is just the newest incremental.
- voxadam 3y agoCareful, believe it or not, "turbo cancer" is actually a thing in the anti-vax community.[0] Well, it's not really a thing but they're convinced it is. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_cancer
- voxadam 3y agoCareful, believe it or not "turbo cancer" is actually a thing in the crackpot anti-vax community.[0] Well, it's not really a thing but they're convinced it is. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_cancer
- jabroni_salad 3y agoOh no, I need to find a new modifier :(
- mschuster91 3y ago> Seeing the world through a bit of a reductionist lens, no? All policy questions come down to "woke" and "anti-woke"? That's sadly the path the world is heading to. The (far-)right has managed to tie virtually every major policy debate into "culture war" questions.
- kzrdude 3y agoNot food, but I got a new chain for the bicycle today, and they are also teflon-lubricated when you get them (a workshop installed it). It's PFAS everywhere.
- tonymet 3y agoPFAS lube works really well
- dashundchen 3y agoWhich brand? I know all bike chains come with factory grease but I don't know if I've ever seen it indicated what they are lubricated with. Of course there are plenty of commercial bike lubes that come with Teflon aka PTFE mixed in. Completely unnecessary, there's a movement to move towards simple paraffin or natural waxes in the cycling community. In fact, wax wears chain less via less contamination and is vastly more efficient than many of the teflon drip lubes. https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/ https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
- kzrdude 3y agoDon't know the brand unfortunately - I was basic and just asked the workshop to do it, because I don't have the tools to adjust the chain. I just thought it was interesting to me that the mechanic explained to me that they come in teflon coating.
- wouldbecouldbe 3y agoI mean, it's not really clear if substitutes are better. It's also an issue with cans. https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/bpa-update-tracking-canned-food-phaseout https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/bpa-update-tracking-c... If you want to be safer rather than sorry, it seems best to opt for the glass option. Although, they are becoming rarer and rarer. Even if it's not PFAS, plastic bottles often release different chemicals, especially when sour, heated, and stored for a long time.
- ck2 3y agoVirtually all freshwater fishing and rainwater in the USA now has PFAS It's also found in human mothers' breast milk when nursing. It's teflon, etc. and it is never ever going away, we've made the planet toxic, forget global-warming/climate-change, this is going to take us out even sooner. Elsewhere in the thread people mention bike chains but that pales skiers have been putting telfon on their skis to go faster/easier for decades now and all that stays on the snow and then melts into the water/ground forever. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/freshwater-fish-contain-harmful-forever-chemicals-180981467/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/freshwater-fish-co... https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62391069 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62391069
- mjb 3y agoThe FIS and many other ski organizations are moving away from flouro wax: https://www.fis-ski.com/cross-country/news/2022-23/fis-to-fully-implement-fluor-wax-ban-at-start-of-2023-24-season https://www.fis-ski.com/cross-country/news/2022-23/fis-to-fu...
- s0rce 3y agoPFAS is not teflon.
- monkburger 3y agoTeflon contain PFAS Look at pubchem.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tmaly 3y ago> are no longer being sold by manufacturers for food contact use in the U.S. market Does this mean if the product is produced outside the US and imported it could still be permitted?
- hammock 3y agoYes. This announcement only applies to four unnamed manufacturers in the US. Here is the original announcement of the phase-out from 2020: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-announces-voluntary-agreement-manufacturers-phase-out-certain-short-chain-pfas-used-food# https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-anno...
- dukeofdoom 3y agoAi should come up with a simplified diet that is optimized to avoid these chemicals. I watched this youtube guy that climbs sky scrappers. Supper fit guy. And his diet mostly consists of eggs, a beet, tomatoes, brown rice and a serving of fish. Very minimal and simple whole foods. And he looks fitter and healthier than 99.9% of people. Despite climbing sky scrappers without a harness, he still will probably live longer than people with a bad diet...so who is living the riskier lifestyle.
- yasp 3y agoOk, and PFOS and PFOA?
- willio58 3y agoIt's becoming obvious to me that rather than holding a blacklist of ingredients and products allowed in and around our foods we need to create a whitelist and sue into oblivion any corporation that steps outside of these bounds. We already do this with medicine, but we seem to have nearly zero concern about foods, the vast majority of what flows through our bodies to (hopefully) provide nourishment.
- hinkley 3y ago“Inactive” ingredients need to be put under a big fat microscope as well.