4 ms·

This is just a consequence of an industrialized society. You cannot go backwards.

somenameforme 3y ago
The arrow of society doesn't just inherently point forwards. The briefest glimpse at history can affirm this clearly enough. Imagine we all had cameras attached to us streaming every moment of our lives to a server 24/7. You'd have suddenly eliminated nearly all crime outside those of passion, because the chances of being caught would be essentially 100%. Mandate everybody wear full-on biohazard suits outdoors anytime you're in public then you would have effectively eliminated any sort of spread of communicable disease. These would be amazing achievements, far greater than many of the undesirable solutions might even imagine achieving. Yet paradoxically these actions would also make life far less worth living. Put more succinctly, how do you know we aren't currently going backwards?
- ryandv 3y ago
  > Imagine we all had cameras attached to us streaming every moment of our lives to a server 24/7. You'd have suddenly eliminated nearly all crime outside those of passion, because the chances of being caught would be essentially 100%. This sounds absolutely worth the "cost." If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear; for this reason I fully embrace total surveillance, online and offline, of all citizens, 24/7.
  - taway789aaa6 3y ago
    Because _that_ would never get abused. > If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear What if you're in a country/locale that, for example, makes same sex relationships illegal? You do have to hide it now, and so you do have to fear. Who gets to determine what has to be hidden?
    - ryandv 3y ago
      Perhaps in a fascist or authoritarian society. For social democratic nations that have been educated out of such bigotry and have responsible people wielding these tools using due process, I don't see the problem.
      - stronglikedan 3y ago
        > If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear That only works in a fascist or authoritarian society. People in social democratic nations have differing opinions on what is right or wrong.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - n1b 3y ago
        Governments and societies do not act according to their defined type at all times. You assume a "social democratic" nation does not sometimes act in "authoritarian" or "fascist" ways, which is plain wrong. Either you're a deeply fearful person, a fed, or incredibly naive. I'm glad your view is not common.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > This sounds absolutely worth the "cost." This is assuming that's how it would shake out (but I don't think it really is): Not to me. I'd rather live free in a world where crime exists than constantly watched in a world where it doesn't.
imchillyb 3y ago
Society does move backwards. First we discover, then we research, then we implement, then we assess the implementation. Sometimes the assessment shows us that the implementation was incorrect. Sometimes the assessment shows us that the original discovery or research was incorrect. Sometimes the assessment shows us unintended consequences for our actions and implementations. Ever see a city that closes down roadways to vehicular traffic, so that bicycles and foot traffic are more prevalent there? That's moving backwards.
082349872349872 3y ago
I'm living in an industrialised society which is not like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39861369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39861369

The arrow of society doesn't just inherently point forwards. The briefest glimpse at history can affirm this clearly enough. Imagine we all had cameras attached to us streaming every moment of our lives to a server 24/7. You'd have suddenly eliminated nearly all crime outside those of passion, because the chances of being caught would be essentially 100%. Mandate everybody wear full-on biohazard suits outdoors anytime you're in public then you would have effectively eliminated any sort of spread of communicable disease. These would be amazing achievements, far greater than many of the undesirable solutions might even imagine achieving. Yet paradoxically these actions would also make life far less worth living. Put more succinctly, how do you know we aren't currently going backwards?

ryandv 3y ago
> Imagine we all had cameras attached to us streaming every moment of our lives to a server 24/7. You'd have suddenly eliminated nearly all crime outside those of passion, because the chances of being caught would be essentially 100%. This sounds absolutely worth the "cost." If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear; for this reason I fully embrace total surveillance, online and offline, of all citizens, 24/7.
- taway789aaa6 3y ago
  Because _that_ would never get abused. > If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear What if you're in a country/locale that, for example, makes same sex relationships illegal? You do have to hide it now, and so you do have to fear. Who gets to determine what has to be hidden?
  - ryandv 3y ago
    Perhaps in a fascist or authoritarian society. For social democratic nations that have been educated out of such bigotry and have responsible people wielding these tools using due process, I don't see the problem.
    - stronglikedan 3y ago
      > If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear That only works in a fascist or authoritarian society. People in social democratic nations have differing opinions on what is right or wrong.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - n1b 3y ago
      Governments and societies do not act according to their defined type at all times. You assume a "social democratic" nation does not sometimes act in "authoritarian" or "fascist" ways, which is plain wrong. Either you're a deeply fearful person, a fed, or incredibly naive. I'm glad your view is not common.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > This sounds absolutely worth the "cost." This is assuming that's how it would shake out (but I don't think it really is): Not to me. I'd rather live free in a world where crime exists than constantly watched in a world where it doesn't.

imchillyb 3y ago

Society does move backwards. First we discover, then we research, then we implement, then we assess the implementation. Sometimes the assessment shows us that the implementation was incorrect. Sometimes the assessment shows us that the original discovery or research was incorrect. Sometimes the assessment shows us unintended consequences for our actions and implementations. Ever see a city that closes down roadways to vehicular traffic, so that bicycles and foot traffic are more prevalent there? That's moving backwards.

082349872349872 3y ago

I'm living in an industrialised society which is not like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39861369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39861369