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I have a tangentially related problem to this, which is that I recently bought a house from a guy that was purportedly some kind of intelligence officer. My new

I have a tangentially related problem to this, which is that I recently bought a house from a guy that was purportedly some kind of intelligence officer. My new neighbors told me he was often going to “spy conventions.” In any event, the house has around 12 security cameras (that I’m aware of), and a crazy server room setup in the basement. I’m a technical person, but the reality is that I’m only 90% sure I successfully transferred access to all of this stuff over to me. For the first couple weeks after moving in, we hadn’t even done that. I’ve literally never looked at any of it. But knowing the kind of guy he was, there’s a part of me is honestly suspicious of not just the cameras, but also things like certain light fixtures. There’s even a clock we hate, hardwired into the wall, pointed directly at the master bedroom shower. His potential access aside, I’ve said to my wife before that I don’t want our kids growing up feeling like they’re always being watched. Nefariously or not, even just the feeling of assuming that someone is watching has to have a profound impact on the way you develop.

greedylizard 3y ago
That’s a scary situation. I wonder how could someone maintain access to cameras without your WiFi login information? Maybe if the DVRs have cellular access, but I haven’t heard of those before. What an interesting problem. You mentioned your kids, but do you think you’ll ever feel like you’re not being watched?
- nkrisc 3y ago
  The easiest way to be sure you’re not being watched is to cut power to them, at the camera itself if you’re really concerned.
  - greedylizard 3y ago
    True, but it seemed that OP was implying that he wasn’t sure he knew where every camera was. He clearly seemed to be concerned that there was a hidden camera in the clock. What do you suggest for that situation?
    - nkrisc 3y ago
      If I had real concerns that my own house was bugged with hidden cameras I would either contract with someone who specializes in handling that sort of thing or sell the house. If doing the latter, consider any applicable disclosure laws and what you do or do not know about the house.
- lhamil64 3y ago
  OP said there's a server room in the basement, so if they are just using the servers as they were and connected that equipment to their network, then the guy could potentially access them.
apienx 3y ago
The quick and dirty method is to point your phone at the suspicious device in total darkness. A modern smartphone will pick up the infrared (your eyes won't). Or get yourself a simple RF detector (or even a Software Defined Radio). You might find this presentation useful (!PDF!). https://defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Polstra/DEFCON-22-Phil-Polstra-Am-I-Being-Spied-On.pdf https://defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Pols... Privacy is a human right. Best of luck!
quesera 3y ago
That is a crazy situation, which I've never even contemplated! But: > There’s even a clock we hate, hardwired into the wall, pointed directly at the master bedroom shower That wouldn't survive the night in my house. It's not necessarily about the former owner being nefarious. If they reset devices before moving, or just abandoned the systems, they could be unpatched/exploitable, or even failing "open" from a security perspective. Get a screwdriver!
JohnFen 3y ago
> even just the feeling of assuming that someone is watching has to have a profound impact on the way you develop. This isn't really discussed enough. It's not just an impact on children's development, it's also an impact on adults. If people think that they're being surveilled (whether or not they really are), that changes how they think and act. They can never really be themselves anymore. That effect is the entire reason that panopticons were invented. It's also a key part of the book "1984". Personally, I think this means that ubiquitous surveillance is a form of psychological torture. Or, at best, it's a form of psychological manipulation. It's poison to the very idea of community and society.
- ryandv 3y ago
  > If people think that they're being surveilled (whether or not they really are), that changes how they think and act. They can never really be themselves anymore. Are you suggesting people cannot be themselves when they are being watched through a camera? Wonder what the implications are in the social media era. > MCLUHAN: And this, I think, has been one of the big effects of the electric age. It has deprived people, really, of their private identity. > They become alienated from themselves very quickly, and then they seek all sorts of bizarre outlets to establish some sort of identity by put-ons. Show business had been one way of establishing identity by just put-ons. And without the put-on, you're a nobody. And so people are learning show business as an ordinary daily way of survival. It's called role-playing. https://www.tvo.org/transcript/155847/marshall-mcluhan-in-conversation-with-mike-mcmanus https://www.tvo.org/transcript/155847/marshall-mcluhan-in-co...
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > Are you suggesting people cannot be themselves when they are being watched through a camera? Yes, this is really well established. Not just through a camera, either. This happens with all kinds of surveillance. For instance, when people are aware of relatively innocuous things such as software telemetry or that streaming services are paying attention to what you watch, they will use the software or streaming differently than if they aren't aware of it. The classic example of this is from the days of Neilsen TV ratings. Neilsen families would routinely do things like ensuring that they let their favorite shows play on the TV even if they aren't watching them out of a fear that if they don't, they're increasing the chances that the show will get cancelled. Or a more modern example: how many people have decided to watch or not watch something on YouTube or other streaming service with an eye toward manipulating the personalized recommendations the service provides? This is also one of McLuhan's points. If we think we have an audience, our thoughts and actions tend to become performative for that audience rather than authentic.
tazu 3y ago
> I’ve said to my wife before that I don’t want our kids growing up feeling like they’re always being watched. Nefariously or not, even just the feeling of assuming that someone is watching has to have a profound impact on the way you develop. I grew up like this, and it probably made me more paranoid and prone to rebel against authority. My dad set up security cameras outside and inside the house. I kind of understood the outside cameras, though he only did it after he found out I brought my girlfriend over when they weren't home. The last straw was when he set up a camera behind my desk pointing at my monitor. I was 16 and already mad I couldn't bring my girlfriend over, but the camera pointing at my desk put me over the edge. So I ssh'd in using the default admin password, rooted it, and rm -rf /*.
branon 3y ago
Why keep any of it? Why waste one second trying to "transfer access" if there's even an iota of doubt? Was the existing system a big reason why you bought the house? Rip it all out and install your own stuff!

greedylizard 3y ago

That’s a scary situation. I wonder how could someone maintain access to cameras without your WiFi login information? Maybe if the DVRs have cellular access, but I haven’t heard of those before. What an interesting problem. You mentioned your kids, but do you think you’ll ever feel like you’re not being watched?

nkrisc 3y ago
The easiest way to be sure you’re not being watched is to cut power to them, at the camera itself if you’re really concerned.
- greedylizard 3y ago
  True, but it seemed that OP was implying that he wasn’t sure he knew where every camera was. He clearly seemed to be concerned that there was a hidden camera in the clock. What do you suggest for that situation?
  - nkrisc 3y ago
    If I had real concerns that my own house was bugged with hidden cameras I would either contract with someone who specializes in handling that sort of thing or sell the house. If doing the latter, consider any applicable disclosure laws and what you do or do not know about the house.
lhamil64 3y ago
OP said there's a server room in the basement, so if they are just using the servers as they were and connected that equipment to their network, then the guy could potentially access them.

apienx 3y ago

The quick and dirty method is to point your phone at the suspicious device in total darkness. A modern smartphone will pick up the infrared (your eyes won't). Or get yourself a simple RF detector (or even a Software Defined Radio). You might find this presentation useful (!PDF!). https://defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Polstra/DEFCON-22-Phil-Polstra-Am-I-Being-Spied-On.pdf https://defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Pols... Privacy is a human right. Best of luck!

quesera 3y ago

That is a crazy situation, which I've never even contemplated! But: > There’s even a clock we hate, hardwired into the wall, pointed directly at the master bedroom shower That wouldn't survive the night in my house. It's not necessarily about the former owner being nefarious. If they reset devices before moving, or just abandoned the systems, they could be unpatched/exploitable, or even failing "open" from a security perspective. Get a screwdriver!

JohnFen 3y ago

> even just the feeling of assuming that someone is watching has to have a profound impact on the way you develop. This isn't really discussed enough. It's not just an impact on children's development, it's also an impact on adults. If people think that they're being surveilled (whether or not they really are), that changes how they think and act. They can never really be themselves anymore. That effect is the entire reason that panopticons were invented. It's also a key part of the book "1984". Personally, I think this means that ubiquitous surveillance is a form of psychological torture. Or, at best, it's a form of psychological manipulation. It's poison to the very idea of community and society.

ryandv 3y ago
> If people think that they're being surveilled (whether or not they really are), that changes how they think and act. They can never really be themselves anymore. Are you suggesting people cannot be themselves when they are being watched through a camera? Wonder what the implications are in the social media era. > MCLUHAN: And this, I think, has been one of the big effects of the electric age. It has deprived people, really, of their private identity. > They become alienated from themselves very quickly, and then they seek all sorts of bizarre outlets to establish some sort of identity by put-ons. Show business had been one way of establishing identity by just put-ons. And without the put-on, you're a nobody. And so people are learning show business as an ordinary daily way of survival. It's called role-playing. https://www.tvo.org/transcript/155847/marshall-mcluhan-in-conversation-with-mike-mcmanus https://www.tvo.org/transcript/155847/marshall-mcluhan-in-co...
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > Are you suggesting people cannot be themselves when they are being watched through a camera? Yes, this is really well established. Not just through a camera, either. This happens with all kinds of surveillance. For instance, when people are aware of relatively innocuous things such as software telemetry or that streaming services are paying attention to what you watch, they will use the software or streaming differently than if they aren't aware of it. The classic example of this is from the days of Neilsen TV ratings. Neilsen families would routinely do things like ensuring that they let their favorite shows play on the TV even if they aren't watching them out of a fear that if they don't, they're increasing the chances that the show will get cancelled. Or a more modern example: how many people have decided to watch or not watch something on YouTube or other streaming service with an eye toward manipulating the personalized recommendations the service provides? This is also one of McLuhan's points. If we think we have an audience, our thoughts and actions tend to become performative for that audience rather than authentic.

tazu 3y ago

> I’ve said to my wife before that I don’t want our kids growing up feeling like they’re always being watched. Nefariously or not, even just the feeling of assuming that someone is watching has to have a profound impact on the way you develop. I grew up like this, and it probably made me more paranoid and prone to rebel against authority. My dad set up security cameras outside and inside the house. I kind of understood the outside cameras, though he only did it after he found out I brought my girlfriend over when they weren't home. The last straw was when he set up a camera behind my desk pointing at my monitor. I was 16 and already mad I couldn't bring my girlfriend over, but the camera pointing at my desk put me over the edge. So I ssh'd in using the default admin password, rooted it, and rm -rf /*.

branon 3y ago

Why keep any of it? Why waste one second trying to "transfer access" if there's even an iota of doubt? Was the existing system a big reason why you bought the house? Rip it all out and install your own stuff!