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I guess that answers my question. People are getting pumped storage and river dams mixed up. It seems mschuster91 also mixed them up. Yes, the capex and lead t

by pydry 3y ago

I guess that answers my question. People are getting pumped storage and river dams mixed up. It seems mschuster91 also mixed them up. Yes, the capex and lead times on one of these things can be huge, but it's comes out ahead of nuclear power on those fronts.

mschuster91 3y ago
> People are getting pumped storage and river dams mixed up. It seems mschuster91 also mixed them up. The environmental impact is bad for both. River dams break fish crossings, the dammed up area gets flooded and wipes out nature as well as archeological artifacts and the dams are at constant risk of damage - especially in a war, see Ukraine for multiple examples, but also due to maintenance neglect, negligence during construction and natural disasters like earthquakes. In the worst cases such as China's Three Gorges dam, millions of people were displaced as well [1]. Pumped storage can come in two variants, either as an associate to ordinary river dams (so they inherit their issues), or as greenfield construction, where they have the same impact on the flooded are, with the additional impact of countless animals dying during pump and empty cycles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam#Displacement_of_residents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam#Displacement_...
- pydry 3y ago
  A link to the three gorges dam wikipedia page says exactly nothing about the potential environmental impact of pumped storage but it does confirm that you are confusing the two technologies.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    ... which is why I linked to the Three Gorges Dam in the paragraph where I described the issues with dammed storage, and made an entirely separate paragraph describing the issues of pumped storage.
    - pydry 3y ago
      Thats exactly my point. You assumed they share the same environmental characteristics i.e. you're confusing them. They do not: https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/articles/lower-environmental-impacts-closed-loop-pumped-storage-new-national-lab-study https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/articles/lower-environment... (this is the second citation to a relevant scientific study in this thread. the first one was also mine) This is getting to seem a bit like those screeds I see about wind farms killing all the birds from nuclear, oil and gas people who see it as a threat.

by pydry 3y ago

mschuster91 3y ago

> People are getting pumped storage and river dams mixed up. It seems mschuster91 also mixed them up. The environmental impact is bad for both. River dams break fish crossings, the dammed up area gets flooded and wipes out nature as well as archeological artifacts and the dams are at constant risk of damage - especially in a war, see Ukraine for multiple examples, but also due to maintenance neglect, negligence during construction and natural disasters like earthquakes. In the worst cases such as China's Three Gorges dam, millions of people were displaced as well [1]. Pumped storage can come in two variants, either as an associate to ordinary river dams (so they inherit their issues), or as greenfield construction, where they have the same impact on the flooded are, with the additional impact of countless animals dying during pump and empty cycles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam#Displacement_of_residents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam#Displacement_...

pydry 3y ago
A link to the three gorges dam wikipedia page says exactly nothing about the potential environmental impact of pumped storage but it does confirm that you are confusing the two technologies.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  ... which is why I linked to the Three Gorges Dam in the paragraph where I described the issues with dammed storage, and made an entirely separate paragraph describing the issues of pumped storage.
  - pydry 3y ago
    Thats exactly my point. You assumed they share the same environmental characteristics i.e. you're confusing them. They do not: https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/articles/lower-environmental-impacts-closed-loop-pumped-storage-new-national-lab-study https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/articles/lower-environment... (this is the second citation to a relevant scientific study in this thread. the first one was also mine) This is getting to seem a bit like those screeds I see about wind farms killing all the birds from nuclear, oil and gas people who see it as a threat.