6 ms·

They killed a whole bunch of civilians. Not as many as Israel since though.

by boppo1 3y ago

cess11 3y ago
Seems likely they did, maybe other groups did too, and we'll probably never know to what extent the IDF were responsible. The involved actor who could clear things up doesn't want to. If they don't want to, I take it that it wasn't very important to them.
- mondojesus 3y ago
  I gotta say it's been interesting finding online discourse that denies an atrocity that occurred only a few months ago. Never really paid attention when people talked about holocaust denial and denial of the Armenian genocide but now finding comments implying hamas did not torture, rape and murder their way across southern Israel when we have literal video footage of these savages enjoying their orgy of violence makes me understand those people a bit better.
  - cess11 3y ago
    The footage picked out for, I think, the #Nova documentary doesn't really corroborate that claim. In swedish it's called Massakern på musikfestivalen, I'm not sure which name it has internationally. It shows some indiscriminate killing, for example throwing handgrenades into rocket shelters. Soon after October 7th there was a lot of video material circulated, claimed to be from Israel but which was really cartel snuff and similar. If you have some material you are sure isn't in this category then I'd like to see it.
    - mondojesus 3y ago
      I watched the footage live on the day. Much of it came from the official hamas telegram group. I really don't understand your motivation in engaging in denial of the atrocity.
      - cess11 3y ago
        I'm not. Please show me.
        skinkestek 3y ago
        It is already linked further up in the thread.
- edanm 3y ago
  You asked elsewhere to see footage, here's one site that has some of hte footage: https://www.hamas-massacre.net/ https://www.hamas-massacre.net/ There are dozens of sites collecting footage that Hamas itself put out during the attacks. There are hundreds of witness accounts. There are countless news articles from reputable news organizations corroborating all these accounts. If you're honestly looking for the truth, it's not hard to realize what that it is.
  - cess11 3y ago
    OK, when I look under the "mass rape" tag there, it's just Amit Soussana, who says vague things like 'at one time a guard forced me to do a sexual thing'. The rest is people who probably suffered torture or could be just about anyone. It also shows Hellfire-burnt bodies at Nova and seems to claim Hamas killed them. Could you be more specific about what footage there is so important? I mean, there were obviously civilians who were killed by palestinians during that day, which isn't surprising or something I contest. But sites like that and the documentary I've seen, what they show isn't a lot, it's nothing like the torture and arbitrary detention and murder Israel has been engaged in for decades.
    - edanm 3y ago
      > Amit Soussana, who says vague things like 'at one time a guard forced me to do a sexual thing'. What do you mean by vague? That's someone who was raped recounting her rape. That tag also includes other testimonies of witnesses who saw people being raped. Other testimonies and videos there show the militants entering villages and shooting civilians. Here, take this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAFDI63yvNQ&rco=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAFDI63yvNQ&rco=1 Look at around the 1:10 mark, you can see some more examples. There's also this website, though I can't access it: https://saturday-october-seven.com/ https://saturday-october-seven.com/, so I'm not sure what it contains. > I mean, there were obviously civilians who were killed by palestinians during that day, which isn't surprising or something I contest. So what are you saying? 1,200 Israelis died that day. Hundreds who were at a music rave. Hundreds who were families in their homes in various villages. We have footage for some of these deaths, but obviously not all 1200, so even if I show you twenty videos, you can still say "well that's just a few". What exactly are you looking for? There are hundreds of articles of journalists who got access to the 47-minute video compilation that is not publicly available, but contains far more material showing the various things Hamas did. E.g. this Tweet/video I randomly found by Chris Cuomo: https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/status/1735473602806399155?lang=en https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/status/1735473602806399155?la... Look, it's totally right to criticize Israel, but denying the many atrocities committed on October 7th is pretty indefensible. If you're engaged enough with this subject to discuss it in online forums to the extent you are doing, I don't think there's much I can say that you haven't seen, or that you can't find with fairly cursory searches. Thousands of mainstream media sources, of all political stripes, document exactly the same thing, and there's plenty of footage. And for what it's worth, just talk with almost any Israeli, like me, and we can just tell you about the many people killed. Without doing any searching for it or anything, I can tell you I know about 8 people who lost loved ones, friends or family, on October 7th. It's just as anecdotal as seeing random video footage, I know, but I'm a real person who's been here on HN for many years.

They killed a whole bunch of civilians. Not as many as Israel since though.

by boppo1 3y ago

They killed a whole bunch of civilians. Not as many as Israel since though.

Seems likely they did, maybe other groups did too, and we'll probably never know to what extent the IDF were responsible. The involved actor who could clear things up doesn't want to. If they don't want to, I take it that it wasn't very important to them.

mondojesus 3y ago
I gotta say it's been interesting finding online discourse that denies an atrocity that occurred only a few months ago. Never really paid attention when people talked about holocaust denial and denial of the Armenian genocide but now finding comments implying hamas did not torture, rape and murder their way across southern Israel when we have literal video footage of these savages enjoying their orgy of violence makes me understand those people a bit better.
- cess11 3y ago
  The footage picked out for, I think, the #Nova documentary doesn't really corroborate that claim. In swedish it's called Massakern på musikfestivalen, I'm not sure which name it has internationally. It shows some indiscriminate killing, for example throwing handgrenades into rocket shelters. Soon after October 7th there was a lot of video material circulated, claimed to be from Israel but which was really cartel snuff and similar. If you have some material you are sure isn't in this category then I'd like to see it.
  - mondojesus 3y ago
    I watched the footage live on the day. Much of it came from the official hamas telegram group. I really don't understand your motivation in engaging in denial of the atrocity.
    - cess11 3y ago
      I'm not. Please show me.
      - skinkestek 3y ago
        It is already linked further up in the thread.
edanm 3y ago
You asked elsewhere to see footage, here's one site that has some of hte footage: https://www.hamas-massacre.net/ https://www.hamas-massacre.net/ There are dozens of sites collecting footage that Hamas itself put out during the attacks. There are hundreds of witness accounts. There are countless news articles from reputable news organizations corroborating all these accounts. If you're honestly looking for the truth, it's not hard to realize what that it is.
- cess11 3y ago
  OK, when I look under the "mass rape" tag there, it's just Amit Soussana, who says vague things like 'at one time a guard forced me to do a sexual thing'. The rest is people who probably suffered torture or could be just about anyone. It also shows Hellfire-burnt bodies at Nova and seems to claim Hamas killed them. Could you be more specific about what footage there is so important? I mean, there were obviously civilians who were killed by palestinians during that day, which isn't surprising or something I contest. But sites like that and the documentary I've seen, what they show isn't a lot, it's nothing like the torture and arbitrary detention and murder Israel has been engaged in for decades.
  - edanm 3y ago
    > Amit Soussana, who says vague things like 'at one time a guard forced me to do a sexual thing'. What do you mean by vague? That's someone who was raped recounting her rape. That tag also includes other testimonies of witnesses who saw people being raped. Other testimonies and videos there show the militants entering villages and shooting civilians. Here, take this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAFDI63yvNQ&rco=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAFDI63yvNQ&rco=1 Look at around the 1:10 mark, you can see some more examples. There's also this website, though I can't access it: https://saturday-october-seven.com/ https://saturday-october-seven.com/, so I'm not sure what it contains. > I mean, there were obviously civilians who were killed by palestinians during that day, which isn't surprising or something I contest. So what are you saying? 1,200 Israelis died that day. Hundreds who were at a music rave. Hundreds who were families in their homes in various villages. We have footage for some of these deaths, but obviously not all 1200, so even if I show you twenty videos, you can still say "well that's just a few". What exactly are you looking for? There are hundreds of articles of journalists who got access to the 47-minute video compilation that is not publicly available, but contains far more material showing the various things Hamas did. E.g. this Tweet/video I randomly found by Chris Cuomo: https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/status/1735473602806399155?lang=en https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/status/1735473602806399155?la... Look, it's totally right to criticize Israel, but denying the many atrocities committed on October 7th is pretty indefensible. If you're engaged enough with this subject to discuss it in online forums to the extent you are doing, I don't think there's much I can say that you haven't seen, or that you can't find with fairly cursory searches. Thousands of mainstream media sources, of all political stripes, document exactly the same thing, and there's plenty of footage. And for what it's worth, just talk with almost any Israeli, like me, and we can just tell you about the many people killed. Without doing any searching for it or anything, I can tell you I know about 8 people who lost loved ones, friends or family, on October 7th. It's just as anecdotal as seeing random video footage, I know, but I'm a real person who's been here on HN for many years.