4 ms·

okay, so where are the steps?

by 23B1 3y ago

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
Don't purchase the surveillance device.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  And get locked out of 80% of modern life :(
  - lrvick 3y ago
    That is just not true. I have not carried a phone or an Google/Apple controlled device in 3+ years and exclusively use FOSS on a personal basis. I live in Silicon Valley, run a b2b tech company, have a huge group of local friends, and have never been excluded from anything I wanted in my life for not having a phone. Paper menus are available if you ask, sms can be converted to VoIP, you do not need Genie Plus to navigate Disney, there is always a way to pay with cash (or cash purchases gift card), paper tickets still work fine everywhere, your bank actually cannot force you to use an app, and internet comments and notifications can wait until you are back home at your desk. Sure, it is a bit like having a dietary restriction, but it is not the life fulfillment blocker everyone makes you think it is.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Hmm here in Spain it's more difficult. Nobody uses SMS here (nor iMessage), it's all WhatsApp and Telegram. And most banks do force an app here (for 2FA payments for example). Tickets can go on paper yeah, though some restaurants I visit don't do paper menus (especially the asian ones). Also some stuff for work is mobile-only. We have a stupid 2FA system that only works with a mobile app (the company gives us a phone but it does mean being tracked), and the same with the desk booking (I absolutely hate the office since we implemented flexdesks). Cash is still common here yeah though I don't like dealing with it. I wish there was a mobile payment method that didn't rely on Apple or Google.
      - lrvick 3y ago
        > Whatsapp/iMessage Both can be bridged to Matrix, which can be accessed with any OS you like with FOSS software. > Tickets can go on paper yeah, though some restaurants I visit don't do paper menus (especially the asian ones). Many have said this to me initially, until I insist I do not own a cell phone. Then they always find a way to produce a tablet for me, or hastily print a screenshot from a phone, or find an old paper menu and cross out some old prices. When I go back to those restaurants later they sometimes have paper menus more readily available, because they were embarrassed the first time for being unable to accommodate a paying customer. After all, even people who do have phones, end up with dead batteries. People with dead phone batteries need to eat too > Also some stuff for work is mobile-only. We have a stupid 2FA system that only works with a mobile app (the company gives us a phone but it does mean being tracked), and the same with the desk booking (I absolutely hate the office since we implemented flexdesks). Almost nothing is truly mobile only. You can run Android applications on QubesOS in a pinch, but more generally I find most 2FA apps actually use TOTP or FIDO under the hood, and can be replaced with open alternatives with a bit of research. > and the same with the desk booking (I absolutely hate the office since we implemented flexdesks). I have never seen one of these that does not have a webapp alternative. If they really don't have one, run their app in a VM and sniff the request traffic. Then you can make a simple shell script or webapp to book those desks for you. Open source it to annoy the company into producing their own. Done this sort of thing many times. > Cash is still common here yeah though I don't like dealing with it. I wish there was a mobile payment method that didn't rely on Apple or Google. In most countries instead of trying to flag down wait staff to take your card, then wait for them to come back, you can just drop cash on the table and leave at any time. I have not been to Spain specifically though. Thing is, everything you buy with Google Apple Visa or Mastercard is logged. Everything you buy at the pharmacy is cross referenced from the cash register software and your credit card purchase then sold to insurance companies, etc etc. Every time you use cash, you are making a small vote against those types of organizations having any more power over the public. Cash can be an annoyance, but it helps take power away from entities who will absolutely use your data to harm people for profit.
        nehal3m 3y ago
        >Both can be bridged to Matrix, which can be accessed with any OS you like with FOSS software. I do this. It's great for protecting your location data and select meta-data, but the contents of your conversation are just as vulnerable as ever because the other party might still be using native apps.
    - 23B1 3y ago
      > I live in Silicon Valley, run a b2b tech company ... I have not carried a phone or an Google/Apple controlled device in 3+ years and exclusively use FOSS on a personal basis. Y'know, a regular salt-of-the-earth type guy
      - lrvick 3y ago
        My point was if someone about as technically connected as one can be is capable of thriving without a phone, basically anyone can.
        23B1 3y ago
        It's interesting you think your technical savvy is correlated with necessity.
        lrvick 3y ago
        I do not think it is, but most who argue they -need- smartphones to survive seem to think so.
        23B1 3y ago
        I think the inside of your bubble must be polished to a mirror finish.
        lrvick 3y ago
        I grew up on the road often getting food from food stamps and food pantries, been working since 10, had to fend for myself since 17, spent years surfing couches and sleeping in cars, and learned engineering skills while working retail, pc repair, coding gigs, street entertainment, day labor, trucking, and telemarketing. I am accustomed to life without a smartphone because I could not afford one until my mid 20s and only had a laptop because of a $200 Black Friday sale I waited in line 3 days for. Keep making assumptions about others though.
    - aembleton 3y ago
      Do you have to select car parks based on ones that don't require an app? More and more near me require an app to pay for parking.
      - lrvick 3y ago
        Typically you can use a webapp or find a paystation where you can use cash or a prepaid credit card. If there are really no humans at all I would just park further or sometimes just park anyway and risk 1/3 chance I get a $20 ticket once in a while I can then pay online without an app. Sometimes paying occasional tickets instead of using the app can actually save you money.
        wkat4242 3y ago
        > risk 1/3 chance I get a $20 ticket They don't clamp where you are? Here in Europe you will usually get clamped and have to wait for them to come out to release it and pay a 100 euro fine.
        lrvick 3y ago
        Not for private lots of the type that require apps. City parking they clamp, but those have appless payment always.
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    If what you're 'locked out of' is considered 'modern life' that'd make me a Luddite. You can have your 'modern life' and do with it what you want, I'll keep to my ways (where Apple et al fear to tread).
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    That is the government's aim yes. They want you to carry a spy device so they will encourage any carrot or stick. Carrots being "look at this shiny thing" or have some dopamine". Sticks being no parking, no banking, no menus, and more.
walterbell 3y ago
repeat for every app: https://www.imore.com/how-stop-siri-learning-how-you-use-apps-iphone-and-ipad https://www.imore.com/how-stop-siri-learning-how-you-use-app...

okay, so where are the steps?

by 23B1 3y ago

okay, so where are the steps?

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago

Don't purchase the surveillance device.

wkat4242 3y ago
And get locked out of 80% of modern life :(
- lrvick 3y ago
  That is just not true. I have not carried a phone or an Google/Apple controlled device in 3+ years and exclusively use FOSS on a personal basis. I live in Silicon Valley, run a b2b tech company, have a huge group of local friends, and have never been excluded from anything I wanted in my life for not having a phone. Paper menus are available if you ask, sms can be converted to VoIP, you do not need Genie Plus to navigate Disney, there is always a way to pay with cash (or cash purchases gift card), paper tickets still work fine everywhere, your bank actually cannot force you to use an app, and internet comments and notifications can wait until you are back home at your desk. Sure, it is a bit like having a dietary restriction, but it is not the life fulfillment blocker everyone makes you think it is.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Hmm here in Spain it's more difficult. Nobody uses SMS here (nor iMessage), it's all WhatsApp and Telegram. And most banks do force an app here (for 2FA payments for example). Tickets can go on paper yeah, though some restaurants I visit don't do paper menus (especially the asian ones). Also some stuff for work is mobile-only. We have a stupid 2FA system that only works with a mobile app (the company gives us a phone but it does mean being tracked), and the same with the desk booking (I absolutely hate the office since we implemented flexdesks). Cash is still common here yeah though I don't like dealing with it. I wish there was a mobile payment method that didn't rely on Apple or Google.
    - lrvick 3y ago
      > Whatsapp/iMessage Both can be bridged to Matrix, which can be accessed with any OS you like with FOSS software. > Tickets can go on paper yeah, though some restaurants I visit don't do paper menus (especially the asian ones). Many have said this to me initially, until I insist I do not own a cell phone. Then they always find a way to produce a tablet for me, or hastily print a screenshot from a phone, or find an old paper menu and cross out some old prices. When I go back to those restaurants later they sometimes have paper menus more readily available, because they were embarrassed the first time for being unable to accommodate a paying customer. After all, even people who do have phones, end up with dead batteries. People with dead phone batteries need to eat too > Also some stuff for work is mobile-only. We have a stupid 2FA system that only works with a mobile app (the company gives us a phone but it does mean being tracked), and the same with the desk booking (I absolutely hate the office since we implemented flexdesks). Almost nothing is truly mobile only. You can run Android applications on QubesOS in a pinch, but more generally I find most 2FA apps actually use TOTP or FIDO under the hood, and can be replaced with open alternatives with a bit of research. > and the same with the desk booking (I absolutely hate the office since we implemented flexdesks). I have never seen one of these that does not have a webapp alternative. If they really don't have one, run their app in a VM and sniff the request traffic. Then you can make a simple shell script or webapp to book those desks for you. Open source it to annoy the company into producing their own. Done this sort of thing many times. > Cash is still common here yeah though I don't like dealing with it. I wish there was a mobile payment method that didn't rely on Apple or Google. In most countries instead of trying to flag down wait staff to take your card, then wait for them to come back, you can just drop cash on the table and leave at any time. I have not been to Spain specifically though. Thing is, everything you buy with Google Apple Visa or Mastercard is logged. Everything you buy at the pharmacy is cross referenced from the cash register software and your credit card purchase then sold to insurance companies, etc etc. Every time you use cash, you are making a small vote against those types of organizations having any more power over the public. Cash can be an annoyance, but it helps take power away from entities who will absolutely use your data to harm people for profit.
      - nehal3m 3y ago
        >Both can be bridged to Matrix, which can be accessed with any OS you like with FOSS software. I do this. It's great for protecting your location data and select meta-data, but the contents of your conversation are just as vulnerable as ever because the other party might still be using native apps.
  - 23B1 3y ago
    > I live in Silicon Valley, run a b2b tech company ... I have not carried a phone or an Google/Apple controlled device in 3+ years and exclusively use FOSS on a personal basis. Y'know, a regular salt-of-the-earth type guy
    - lrvick 3y ago
      My point was if someone about as technically connected as one can be is capable of thriving without a phone, basically anyone can.
      - 23B1 3y ago
        It's interesting you think your technical savvy is correlated with necessity.
        lrvick 3y ago
        I do not think it is, but most who argue they -need- smartphones to survive seem to think so.
        23B1 3y ago
        I think the inside of your bubble must be polished to a mirror finish.
        lrvick 3y ago
        I grew up on the road often getting food from food stamps and food pantries, been working since 10, had to fend for myself since 17, spent years surfing couches and sleeping in cars, and learned engineering skills while working retail, pc repair, coding gigs, street entertainment, day labor, trucking, and telemarketing. I am accustomed to life without a smartphone because I could not afford one until my mid 20s and only had a laptop because of a $200 Black Friday sale I waited in line 3 days for. Keep making assumptions about others though.
  - aembleton 3y ago
    Do you have to select car parks based on ones that don't require an app? More and more near me require an app to pay for parking.
    - lrvick 3y ago
      Typically you can use a webapp or find a paystation where you can use cash or a prepaid credit card. If there are really no humans at all I would just park further or sometimes just park anyway and risk 1/3 chance I get a $20 ticket once in a while I can then pay online without an app. Sometimes paying occasional tickets instead of using the app can actually save you money.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        > risk 1/3 chance I get a $20 ticket They don't clamp where you are? Here in Europe you will usually get clamped and have to wait for them to come out to release it and pay a 100 euro fine.
        lrvick 3y ago
        Not for private lots of the type that require apps. City parking they clamp, but those have appless payment always.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  If what you're 'locked out of' is considered 'modern life' that'd make me a Luddite. You can have your 'modern life' and do with it what you want, I'll keep to my ways (where Apple et al fear to tread).
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
  That is the government's aim yes. They want you to carry a spy device so they will encourage any carrot or stick. Carrots being "look at this shiny thing" or have some dopamine". Sticks being no parking, no banking, no menus, and more.

walterbell 3y ago

repeat for every app: https://www.imore.com/how-stop-siri-learning-how-you-use-apps-iphone-and-ipad https://www.imore.com/how-stop-siri-learning-how-you-use-app...