4 ms·

They mentioned that the problem occurred while steam was downloading, I wonder if because steam is ultra cross platform with bare minimum OS specific UI it is u

by willyt 3y ago

They mentioned that the problem occurred while steam was downloading, I wonder if because steam is ultra cross platform with bare minimum OS specific UI it is using something quite low level to write data to disk? Maybe NSFile does some checks that posix calls can’t do while remaining compliant with the spec or something weird like that. That would explain why people using various low level ´pro level’ cross platform tools like databases would have issues but typical garage band user is usually ok. If you’re doing database writes you probably don’t want the overhead of these checks making your file system performance look bad so it’s left to the software to check that it’s not going to fill up the file system. Stab in the dark hypothesis. I would hope that however we are writing data to the file system it shouldn’t be able to lock it up like this. I’d be curious for someone with technical knowledge of this to chime in.

sspiff 3y ago
Still, you should not be able to brick your device into a state like this with legitimate, normal, non elevated operations. If the POSIX API does have some limitation which would prevent this error from occurring with higher level APIs (which I sincerely doubt), macOS should simply start failing with errno = ENOSPC earlier for POSIX operations. There is no other system that behaves like this, and we wouldn't be making excuses like this if Microsoft messed something basic up like this.
- willyt 3y ago
  I agree, though others are saying that BTRFS and ZFS can also get into this state.
  - sspiff 3y ago
    I'd have to try, but have never encountered something like it on btrfs (though to be fair I've had many other issues and bugs with it over the years!) I understand the logic, but typically I've seen filesystem implementations block writes once metadata volumes become close enough to full. Also, and I don't know if this is a thing on modern filesystems, you used to be able to reserve free space for root user only, precisely for recovering from issues like this in the past.
themoonisachees 3y ago
Steam simply stores games in it's install folder, and while downloading the (compressed) game files it keeps them fragmented in a separate directory. As far as I can tell it doesn't employ special low-level APIs, because on lower power hardware (and even sometimes on gaming gear) the bottleneck is often the decompression step. This is what steam is doing when you are downloading a game and it stops using the network but the disk usage is going and the processor gets pinned at 100%. I also heard of this happening to regular users downloading stuff with safari. It is simply terrible design on apple's part that you can kill a macOS install simply by filling it up so much that it becomes possible to not be able to delete files.

by willyt 3y ago

sspiff 3y ago

Still, you should not be able to brick your device into a state like this with legitimate, normal, non elevated operations. If the POSIX API does have some limitation which would prevent this error from occurring with higher level APIs (which I sincerely doubt), macOS should simply start failing with errno = ENOSPC earlier for POSIX operations. There is no other system that behaves like this, and we wouldn't be making excuses like this if Microsoft messed something basic up like this.

willyt 3y ago
I agree, though others are saying that BTRFS and ZFS can also get into this state.
- sspiff 3y ago
  I'd have to try, but have never encountered something like it on btrfs (though to be fair I've had many other issues and bugs with it over the years!) I understand the logic, but typically I've seen filesystem implementations block writes once metadata volumes become close enough to full. Also, and I don't know if this is a thing on modern filesystems, you used to be able to reserve free space for root user only, precisely for recovering from issues like this in the past.

themoonisachees 3y ago

Steam simply stores games in it's install folder, and while downloading the (compressed) game files it keeps them fragmented in a separate directory. As far as I can tell it doesn't employ special low-level APIs, because on lower power hardware (and even sometimes on gaming gear) the bottleneck is often the decompression step. This is what steam is doing when you are downloading a game and it stops using the network but the disk usage is going and the processor gets pinned at 100%. I also heard of this happening to regular users downloading stuff with safari. It is simply terrible design on apple's part that you can kill a macOS install simply by filling it up so much that it becomes possible to not be able to delete files.