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The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death. It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat
by marginalia_nu 3y ago
The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death.
It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat, metaphorically or literally. Self-determination was seen as a bigger virtue than life, and e.g. Cato killing himself was regarded as a way to rob Julius Caesar of ultimate victory, turning him into a sort of martyr for the philosophy.
I am willing to grant them the point that in a hypothetical society where suicide was not taboo, but an mundane and uncontroversial act, a lot of things we consider problems would vanish overnight. Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will.
At first glance, this seems like it would benefit the bullies, but if you think further, you realize they would find themselves completely isolated without allies. The only way to successfully work with other people would be through cooperation.
It's obviously not entirely realistic to have a society that functions this way, but it's arguably an underexplored counterfactual that raises questions regarding who actually benefits from particular taboo.
- Arch-TK 3y agoI think de-stigmatizing suicide wouldn't exactly prevent slavery. The thing stopping slaves from killing themselves is probably not the social stigma surrounding suicide.
- Ajay-p 3y agoAll these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. Hope is what you may be referring to here. If a person in mistreatment could let go of hope and accept the now as the way it always will be, they would be freed to end their life and have that dignity of self determination. I have read somewhere that kidnappers will give their victims false hope of being released because it makes the victim less willing to fight back.
- raydev 3y ago> Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will. Unfortunately for those of us in most of the world, we need to work jobs that may not be appealing to us at all, and may even beat us down physically and mentally over time, in order to pay bills and support families. I'd argue most people are working against their will, but it's a lever they can pull to dump money into their bank accounts. I know I wouldn't have a 9-5 job if I truly had the choice, and I happen to like my job and have fun with it most of the time!
- marginalia_nu 3y agoSure, this is the premise behind the entire current economic system. I'm asking what if that is not possible? What would a society that is by brute necessity based on voluntary cooperation look?
- foogazi 3y agoI don’t find the premise logical - that suicidal taboo prevents people from action > Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will. > At first glance, this seems like it would benefit the bullies Sure, people can remove themselves from harm, but most of the time they will remove the harm themselves - this definitely would not favor the bully This is where revolutions and revolts come from Suicide taboo is not holding anyone back