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+972 magazine is EXTREMELY anti-Israel and anti-semitic, so this article is written through the lens of despising Israel and Jews. Here are some of their other

by surume 3y ago

+972 magazine is EXTREMELY anti-Israel and anti-semitic, so this article is written through the lens of despising Israel and Jews. Here are some of their other article titles, which you can find on their home page: 1. Hebrew University’s Faculty of Repressive Science 2. The spiraling absurdity of Germany’s pro-Israel fanaticism 3. The first step toward disintegrating Israel’s settler machine As such, their view is not at all balanced or even-handed. Objective truth obviously matters very little to them since they exhibit such open bias and loathing towards Israel and the Jewish people.

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
Do the IDF analysts who are being interviewed also despise Israel and the Jewish people?
- surume 3y ago
  Yes. We have very anti-Israel intelligence officers who are politically placed on the far left. Just because you're Israeli doesnt mean that you're pro Israel. Same for the IDF (which Im a soldier in). Just by speaking to a heavily biased paper like 972 they show their own bias against the country. I serve with several soldiers who are more supportive of the Palestinians than their own country.
  - GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
    Interesting. I would imagine it's counter productive to have conscription of left leaning Israelis who don't support the war in Gaza, no? Why would these people have such important jobs within the military if they are so anti-Israel? Also, The Guardian corroborated +972's reporting on this matter recently: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... And, while I have you I had a few questions, if you don't mind: 1. What drove the IDF's intelligence failure on Hamas activity before Oct 7? 2. With or without intelligence, why was the IDF unable to defend such an important security zone? One that I'd argue is world class, in terms of technology, troops, and arms.
    - surume 3y ago
      Excellent questions. I'm not saying that the story isn't technically true. I'm saying that because of the obvious bias of +972, that their narative is one-sided and dangerous. There are the facts, and then there is the interpretation of the facts, both of which appear in the article. I would prefer to read the story from a more even-handed paper. > Why would these people have such important jobs within the military if they are so anti-Israel? Soldiers are not screened for philosophical or nationalistic biases when they join intelligence or elite cyber units. They are only screened for capability, and patriotism is assumed. This has led to many anti-Zionists serving in very senior positions in the army. I've personally heard senior IDF officer rail against the religion and the country. > 1. What drove the IDF's intelligence failure on Hamas activity before Oct 7? Multiple factors. The social turmoil from the Judicial Reform fiasco definitely weakened us, as many left-wing intel personnel refused to serve, while others kept serving but stopped doing their jobs. Hamas also played an excellent game, keeping their mission secret amongst top commanders until the morning of Oct 7. I believe that our agencies had all the pieces of the puzzle, but since they weren't talking to each other, they didn't put it together until it had already happened. If Israel wants to survive (speaking as a resident and a soldier), then the entire intel apparatus has to be overhauled. Otherwise, we will be visiting the gas chambers quite soon. > 2. With or without intelligence, why was the IDF unable to defend such an important security zone? One that I'd argue is world class, in terms of technology, troops, and arms. Also, there are a few reasons. The soldiers there had been lulled into a sense of false security, and they paid for it with their lives. Most of them (about 350) were wiped out within the first hour or two. Again, Hamas played an excellent game. They brought a fully-automatic grenade launcher with an enormous amount of ammo and annihilated one base within a few minutes. That took out most of the infantry in the area. Meanwhile the pilots were not able to get into the air because of the Judicial Reform fiasco. They had not flown in 6 months out of protest against the reform, and as such their planes had not been refuelled or used in any way, and were not operational. But most of all, the left-wing generals that dominate our army truly believed that we had entered an era where no more wars would be fought, despite there being zero evidence that this was the case. Hamas understood this, and used it against us to mount a flawless surprise attack.
      - 3y ago
Argonaut998 3y ago
None of those articles are anti-Semitic.
- surume 3y ago
  Actually they are. The Jewish people IS Israel and Israel is the Jewish people. To loath Israel is to loath Jews, which is why you see violent pro-Hamas protests at synagogues around the world now. It is understood and ubiquitously accepted that the enemy of "anti-Zionists" are all Jews, and yes, many anti-Zionists are Jews themselves.
  - Argonaut998 3y ago
    Israel is a state and Jewish people are an ethnicity/religion. It is nonsensical to suggest that they are synonymous — what other country in the world can you say that a country is identical to its people? If I criticise the Chinese Communist Party I’m not guilty of Sinophobia, why is Israel any different? When Israel does something wrong, like kill civilians and/or foreign aid workers, do the Jewish people all over the world collectively bear the guilt of it? Obviously not. You can’t have it both ways.
    - surume 3y ago
      That could not be further from the truth. Israel and the Jewish people are one and the same. Israel is founded on Jewish principles, adheres to Jewish laws, enables the Jewish people to fulfill their national destiny, and represents every Jew on earth. You cannot separate the two. > what other country in the world can you say that a country is identical to its people? We are unlike any other nation or state on earth - I mean, we are DEFINITELY judged differently! lol. Indeed, you cannot judge us like you would any other state, because we are unique. E.g. there is no state that is generally considered the national home of the Christians, or the Buddhists, or the Muslims. Legally, all Jews have a say in Israel's decisions via the Law of Return, whether they use that privilege or not, so at the legal level there is a level of accountability. > When Israel does something wrong, like kill civilians and/or foreign aid workers, do the Jewish people all over the world collectively bear the guilt of it? Yes, they absolutely do. You are correct in your assertion that you can't have it both ways, and we aren't asking for that. All Jews worldwide should be judged on the actions of the Israeli State, because Israel is the nation-state of the Jews. Conversely, when Israel does something good or right or praiseworthy, every Jew around the world is entitled to that praise, and feels proud of their home, even if they are currently not living there.

by surume 3y ago

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago

Do the IDF analysts who are being interviewed also despise Israel and the Jewish people?

surume 3y ago
Yes. We have very anti-Israel intelligence officers who are politically placed on the far left. Just because you're Israeli doesnt mean that you're pro Israel. Same for the IDF (which Im a soldier in). Just by speaking to a heavily biased paper like 972 they show their own bias against the country. I serve with several soldiers who are more supportive of the Palestinians than their own country.
- GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
  Interesting. I would imagine it's counter productive to have conscription of left leaning Israelis who don't support the war in Gaza, no? Why would these people have such important jobs within the military if they are so anti-Israel? Also, The Guardian corroborated +972's reporting on this matter recently: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai... And, while I have you I had a few questions, if you don't mind: 1. What drove the IDF's intelligence failure on Hamas activity before Oct 7? 2. With or without intelligence, why was the IDF unable to defend such an important security zone? One that I'd argue is world class, in terms of technology, troops, and arms.
  - surume 3y ago
    Excellent questions. I'm not saying that the story isn't technically true. I'm saying that because of the obvious bias of +972, that their narative is one-sided and dangerous. There are the facts, and then there is the interpretation of the facts, both of which appear in the article. I would prefer to read the story from a more even-handed paper. > Why would these people have such important jobs within the military if they are so anti-Israel? Soldiers are not screened for philosophical or nationalistic biases when they join intelligence or elite cyber units. They are only screened for capability, and patriotism is assumed. This has led to many anti-Zionists serving in very senior positions in the army. I've personally heard senior IDF officer rail against the religion and the country. > 1. What drove the IDF's intelligence failure on Hamas activity before Oct 7? Multiple factors. The social turmoil from the Judicial Reform fiasco definitely weakened us, as many left-wing intel personnel refused to serve, while others kept serving but stopped doing their jobs. Hamas also played an excellent game, keeping their mission secret amongst top commanders until the morning of Oct 7. I believe that our agencies had all the pieces of the puzzle, but since they weren't talking to each other, they didn't put it together until it had already happened. If Israel wants to survive (speaking as a resident and a soldier), then the entire intel apparatus has to be overhauled. Otherwise, we will be visiting the gas chambers quite soon. > 2. With or without intelligence, why was the IDF unable to defend such an important security zone? One that I'd argue is world class, in terms of technology, troops, and arms. Also, there are a few reasons. The soldiers there had been lulled into a sense of false security, and they paid for it with their lives. Most of them (about 350) were wiped out within the first hour or two. Again, Hamas played an excellent game. They brought a fully-automatic grenade launcher with an enormous amount of ammo and annihilated one base within a few minutes. That took out most of the infantry in the area. Meanwhile the pilots were not able to get into the air because of the Judicial Reform fiasco. They had not flown in 6 months out of protest against the reform, and as such their planes had not been refuelled or used in any way, and were not operational. But most of all, the left-wing generals that dominate our army truly believed that we had entered an era where no more wars would be fought, despite there being zero evidence that this was the case. Hamas understood this, and used it against us to mount a flawless surprise attack.
    - 3y ago

Argonaut998 3y ago

None of those articles are anti-Semitic.

surume 3y ago
Actually they are. The Jewish people IS Israel and Israel is the Jewish people. To loath Israel is to loath Jews, which is why you see violent pro-Hamas protests at synagogues around the world now. It is understood and ubiquitously accepted that the enemy of "anti-Zionists" are all Jews, and yes, many anti-Zionists are Jews themselves.
- Argonaut998 3y ago
  Israel is a state and Jewish people are an ethnicity/religion. It is nonsensical to suggest that they are synonymous — what other country in the world can you say that a country is identical to its people? If I criticise the Chinese Communist Party I’m not guilty of Sinophobia, why is Israel any different? When Israel does something wrong, like kill civilians and/or foreign aid workers, do the Jewish people all over the world collectively bear the guilt of it? Obviously not. You can’t have it both ways.
  - surume 3y ago
    That could not be further from the truth. Israel and the Jewish people are one and the same. Israel is founded on Jewish principles, adheres to Jewish laws, enables the Jewish people to fulfill their national destiny, and represents every Jew on earth. You cannot separate the two. > what other country in the world can you say that a country is identical to its people? We are unlike any other nation or state on earth - I mean, we are DEFINITELY judged differently! lol. Indeed, you cannot judge us like you would any other state, because we are unique. E.g. there is no state that is generally considered the national home of the Christians, or the Buddhists, or the Muslims. Legally, all Jews have a say in Israel's decisions via the Law of Return, whether they use that privilege or not, so at the legal level there is a level of accountability. > When Israel does something wrong, like kill civilians and/or foreign aid workers, do the Jewish people all over the world collectively bear the guilt of it? Yes, they absolutely do. You are correct in your assertion that you can't have it both ways, and we aren't asking for that. All Jews worldwide should be judged on the actions of the Israeli State, because Israel is the nation-state of the Jews. Conversely, when Israel does something good or right or praiseworthy, every Jew around the world is entitled to that praise, and feels proud of their home, even if they are currently not living there.