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I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brain

I believe this is yet another case of people being skeptical about the very existence of mental illness. Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Maybe they're just faking it? They should probably be more grateful for the gifts they've received from God, and they'll be happy. Maybe they're just bad people?

xanderlewis 3y ago
> Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer This is absolutely not a universally held belief.
- bheadmaster 3y ago
  Of course not - no belief is. My point was that it is drastically easier to believe that euthanasia for cancer patients is okay, than for depression sufferers.
  - arrowsmith 3y ago
    So then why did you call it a "no-brainer"?
    - hazmazlaz 3y ago
      Because the obvious utility of being able to choose the manner of one's own death, to limit suffering, and to retain a bit of agency in the face of certain death, inconceivable suffering, and the loss of one's own body to cancer makes this choice quite an easy one for many.
tibbydudeza 3y ago
>> What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Nonsense - you clearly never had somebody close to you suffer from it. My daughter suffers from depression - it is not a state of mind or a funk you can snap out of.
- bheadmaster 3y ago
  You have misunderstood. That sentence is not a reflection of my opinion - my whole second paragraph was a mock example of how mental illness skeptics think about depression.
  - tibbydudeza 3y ago
    Sorry about that. It really get's me in the crop when my family unfamiliar with mental illness says the same things. The folks who think you only see a mental health professional or go to the clinic because you are mad.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  Try re-reading the comment you replied to. It's mocking common dismissals of depression. They agree with you.
Wytwwww 3y ago
> Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. These are fundamentally different situations. Incurable cancer patients are basically guaranteed to die because of their condition in the near future. Allowing "euthanasia"/assisted suicide only normalizes suicide and encourages the state/societe/health-providers to dedicate less resources to mental health since we have a much cheaper/easier solution now. How do you determine that someone suffering from a mental health condition "terminally ill"? The patients surely can't do that themselves and the healthcare system(private or public) is only able to dedicate a certain amount of resources to a relatively limited number of approved treatment options. I don't know what happened in this case but I'd bet that there were certainly many experimental (and probably mainstream) treatment options that she simply had no access to. Cancer and other terminal patients beyond a certain point are effectively doomed and can't be saved regardless of money/resources, they can't wait for another year or two for improved treatments, which IMHO is a huge difference because "euthanasia" shouldn't be an acceptable option unless every other option has been exhausted.
ryandvm 3y ago
I think this is about certainty. We don't object to euthanasia for incurable cancer because we understand that A) it's painful and B) it's terminal. But that's not the case for depression because there are literally millions of people that have recovered or at least learned how to live with depression.
- NoGravitas 3y ago
  Severe depression is painful. It's often terminal if untreated, and there's no treatment that's guaranteed to work. I'm not saying euthanasia was the right choice, but sometimes, depression really is incurable. There's no way to know other than trying all the known interventions and having them fail, which may be the best criteria for being eligible for euthanasia.
lamontcg 3y ago
> incurable depression sufferers? I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. You can be in a pretty long deep depression in your 20s and pull out of it in your 30s and 40s.
- raydev 3y ago
  Plenty of people attempt suicide after 30 or 40 or 50 as well. What's your proposed window?
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    I don't think its up to me to determine a "proposed window", I think its on the other side of the debate to define what "terminal" depression is.
- j_crick 3y ago
  > I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. That you don’t have or see one doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    But it means that it isn't possible to tell if a 28 year old will pull out of their depression given some more years, or if it really is life-long and untreatable. Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy.
    - j_crick 3y ago
      > Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy Are you some kind of arbiter of bodies and lives of others? If not, what's your business with that?

xanderlewis 3y ago

> Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer This is absolutely not a universally held belief.

bheadmaster 3y ago
Of course not - no belief is. My point was that it is drastically easier to believe that euthanasia for cancer patients is okay, than for depression sufferers.
- arrowsmith 3y ago
  So then why did you call it a "no-brainer"?
  - hazmazlaz 3y ago
    Because the obvious utility of being able to choose the manner of one's own death, to limit suffering, and to retain a bit of agency in the face of certain death, inconceivable suffering, and the loss of one's own body to cancer makes this choice quite an easy one for many.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

>> What if it's just a phase they'll grow out of? Nonsense - you clearly never had somebody close to you suffer from it. My daughter suffers from depression - it is not a state of mind or a funk you can snap out of.

bheadmaster 3y ago
You have misunderstood. That sentence is not a reflection of my opinion - my whole second paragraph was a mock example of how mental illness skeptics think about depression.
- tibbydudeza 3y ago
  Sorry about that. It really get's me in the crop when my family unfamiliar with mental illness says the same things. The folks who think you only see a mental health professional or go to the clinic because you are mad.
david-gpu 3y ago
Try re-reading the comment you replied to. It's mocking common dismissals of depression. They agree with you.

Wytwwww 3y ago

> Euthanasia for incurable cancer patients is a no-brainer, but for incurable depression sufferers? Well, their bodies are healthy. These are fundamentally different situations. Incurable cancer patients are basically guaranteed to die because of their condition in the near future. Allowing "euthanasia"/assisted suicide only normalizes suicide and encourages the state/societe/health-providers to dedicate less resources to mental health since we have a much cheaper/easier solution now. How do you determine that someone suffering from a mental health condition "terminally ill"? The patients surely can't do that themselves and the healthcare system(private or public) is only able to dedicate a certain amount of resources to a relatively limited number of approved treatment options. I don't know what happened in this case but I'd bet that there were certainly many experimental (and probably mainstream) treatment options that she simply had no access to. Cancer and other terminal patients beyond a certain point are effectively doomed and can't be saved regardless of money/resources, they can't wait for another year or two for improved treatments, which IMHO is a huge difference because "euthanasia" shouldn't be an acceptable option unless every other option has been exhausted.

ryandvm 3y ago

I think this is about certainty. We don't object to euthanasia for incurable cancer because we understand that A) it's painful and B) it's terminal. But that's not the case for depression because there are literally millions of people that have recovered or at least learned how to live with depression.

NoGravitas 3y ago
Severe depression is painful. It's often terminal if untreated, and there's no treatment that's guaranteed to work. I'm not saying euthanasia was the right choice, but sometimes, depression really is incurable. There's no way to know other than trying all the known interventions and having them fail, which may be the best criteria for being eligible for euthanasia.

lamontcg 3y ago

> incurable depression sufferers? I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. You can be in a pretty long deep depression in your 20s and pull out of it in your 30s and 40s.

raydev 3y ago
Plenty of people attempt suicide after 30 or 40 or 50 as well. What's your proposed window?
- lamontcg 3y ago
  I don't think its up to me to determine a "proposed window", I think its on the other side of the debate to define what "terminal" depression is.
j_crick 3y ago
> I'm just not sure that a 28 year old is really facing incurable depression. That you don’t have or see one doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  But it means that it isn't possible to tell if a 28 year old will pull out of their depression given some more years, or if it really is life-long and untreatable. Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy.
  - j_crick 3y ago
    > Show me a test that determines what their future is with some kind of accuracy Are you some kind of arbiter of bodies and lives of others? If not, what's your business with that?