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Henry Darger is one of the most illustrous examples of outsider art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art He he

Henry Darger is one of the most illustrous examples of outsider art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art He held the same job his entire life as a janitor and yet he created a mystical complex world only know by himself.

pavlov 3y ago
In the world of software, the closest equivalent to outsider art would probably be TempleOS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS
- kazinator 3y ago
  I would say no, and here is my reasoning. Check the bio. Davis was a skilled programmer with a solid background: a master's degree in electrical engineering from Arizona State, which he earned in 1994, just two years before the documented onset of his mental illness in 1996. Because of his illness, Davis himself became an outsider, clearly. But TempleOS isn't any more "outsider art" than any other solo project, like Bill Joy's vi, or Knuth's TeX or what have you. Also, religious themes aside, the techniques in Temple OS are thoroughly mainstream, full of familiar concepts. The code is understandable to any engineer competent in those areas. (No worse than any other mountain of uncommented code that occurs in our industry, in any case.)
- npteljes 3y ago
  Maybe the mood is similar, but it's not outsider art, Terry frequently published and participated in communication with regards to TempleOS.
kazinator 3y ago
There should be no other art, arguably. What is an "insider" in art? Someone who has a private telephone line to the god of true style?
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  The article hints at that, it basically means he didn't have any formal education in art, little outside influence from established artists, did not get any feedback on his work, did not publish anything on his own; I'm not sure if he ever gave any interviews or context after the works were discovered.
  - kazinator 3y ago
    Three-year-old's drawing posted on refrigerator: outsider art or not? It seems that "outsider art" only really makes sense as "work produced by someone not participating in a certain socio-economic structure that some people have erected in connection with their art-related interests", which is a remark that has no value. Someone doing "outsider art" is an outsider to something, but that something is not art itself. That socio-economic structure is not art itself. The "outsider art" designation doesn't say anything about the art itself, only the circumstances of one who made it; it is a form of ad hominem. There is no such thing as "outsider art" just like "logical proposition uttered by a known liar" is not actually a real category of logical propositions, like "true proposition". Art requires no membership in any club, or conformity to any shibboleths. Because art is a basic human expression; it doesn't require education, or discussion or anything else. "Insider art" is not any more valid than "outsider art", because art doesn't require any conformance to a code. It's not like "outsider residential wiring", where someone who is not a trained and licensed electrician can make a code-violating mess that is unsafe. Becoming part of some millieu in connection with doing art is entirely optional. The literal interpretation of "outsider art" is nonsensical, like this: "You may have produced a natural smell out of your anus, but since you have no formal education in it, don't follow influences of notable farters, and don't receive feedback on your work from connoiseurs of flatulence, it is 'outsider fart'."
- Applejinx 3y ago
  Community art. Think the Algonquin round table, or Cyberpunk, or Impressionism, etc etc. Very often when something begins to happen, people's social behaviors kick in and they get interested in what they all are doing, and that's where you get movements and styles across multiple artists. They're in a community.
ndarray 3y ago
> Outsider art is an umbrella term for any art made by self-taught individuals who are untrained and untutored in the traditional arts with typically little or no contact with the conventions of the art worlds. Does this definition even matter when, in order to gain any significant recognition, outsider artists must get noticed and picked up by those same conventionalists of the art world?
- egypturnash 3y ago
  It's useful for sales and promotion. Same as any other genre.
- dfxm12 3y ago
  In this case "the conventions of the art world" refers more to technical concepts like perspective, composition, color theory, etc. In this way, outsider art is distinguished from naive art. I personally think the distinction is flimsy, but humans do like to create these kinds of taxonomy. Folk art is another similar, but somehow technically different genre of art. It has less to do with the people in the art world: gallery owners, agents, critics, etc. Artists who meet the definition of outsider artists had their work shown in the traditional way, like Grandma Moses, Horace Pippin, etc.

pavlov 3y ago

In the world of software, the closest equivalent to outsider art would probably be TempleOS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS

kazinator 3y ago
I would say no, and here is my reasoning. Check the bio. Davis was a skilled programmer with a solid background: a master's degree in electrical engineering from Arizona State, which he earned in 1994, just two years before the documented onset of his mental illness in 1996. Because of his illness, Davis himself became an outsider, clearly. But TempleOS isn't any more "outsider art" than any other solo project, like Bill Joy's vi, or Knuth's TeX or what have you. Also, religious themes aside, the techniques in Temple OS are thoroughly mainstream, full of familiar concepts. The code is understandable to any engineer competent in those areas. (No worse than any other mountain of uncommented code that occurs in our industry, in any case.)
npteljes 3y ago
Maybe the mood is similar, but it's not outsider art, Terry frequently published and participated in communication with regards to TempleOS.

kazinator 3y ago

There should be no other art, arguably. What is an "insider" in art? Someone who has a private telephone line to the god of true style?

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
The article hints at that, it basically means he didn't have any formal education in art, little outside influence from established artists, did not get any feedback on his work, did not publish anything on his own; I'm not sure if he ever gave any interviews or context after the works were discovered.
- kazinator 3y ago
  Three-year-old's drawing posted on refrigerator: outsider art or not? It seems that "outsider art" only really makes sense as "work produced by someone not participating in a certain socio-economic structure that some people have erected in connection with their art-related interests", which is a remark that has no value. Someone doing "outsider art" is an outsider to something, but that something is not art itself. That socio-economic structure is not art itself. The "outsider art" designation doesn't say anything about the art itself, only the circumstances of one who made it; it is a form of ad hominem. There is no such thing as "outsider art" just like "logical proposition uttered by a known liar" is not actually a real category of logical propositions, like "true proposition". Art requires no membership in any club, or conformity to any shibboleths. Because art is a basic human expression; it doesn't require education, or discussion or anything else. "Insider art" is not any more valid than "outsider art", because art doesn't require any conformance to a code. It's not like "outsider residential wiring", where someone who is not a trained and licensed electrician can make a code-violating mess that is unsafe. Becoming part of some millieu in connection with doing art is entirely optional. The literal interpretation of "outsider art" is nonsensical, like this: "You may have produced a natural smell out of your anus, but since you have no formal education in it, don't follow influences of notable farters, and don't receive feedback on your work from connoiseurs of flatulence, it is 'outsider fart'."
Applejinx 3y ago
Community art. Think the Algonquin round table, or Cyberpunk, or Impressionism, etc etc. Very often when something begins to happen, people's social behaviors kick in and they get interested in what they all are doing, and that's where you get movements and styles across multiple artists. They're in a community.

ndarray 3y ago

> Outsider art is an umbrella term for any art made by self-taught individuals who are untrained and untutored in the traditional arts with typically little or no contact with the conventions of the art worlds. Does this definition even matter when, in order to gain any significant recognition, outsider artists must get noticed and picked up by those same conventionalists of the art world?

egypturnash 3y ago
It's useful for sales and promotion. Same as any other genre.
dfxm12 3y ago
In this case "the conventions of the art world" refers more to technical concepts like perspective, composition, color theory, etc. In this way, outsider art is distinguished from naive art. I personally think the distinction is flimsy, but humans do like to create these kinds of taxonomy. Folk art is another similar, but somehow technically different genre of art. It has less to do with the people in the art world: gallery owners, agents, critics, etc. Artists who meet the definition of outsider artists had their work shown in the traditional way, like Grandma Moses, Horace Pippin, etc.