5 ms·

OP didn't say Israel is fighting for basically no reason. You're twisting their words, I'll assume out of a misreading. Read the comment again. They clearly sa

OP didn't say Israel is fighting for basically no reason. You're twisting their words, I'll assume out of a misreading. Read the comment again. They clearly said that there's no good reason to bomb Gaza the way that they have been doing, resulting in the murder of thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of civilians.

flyinglizard 3y ago
No one offered an alternative, either.
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
  Alternative to accomplish what exactly? To get hostages back? Hostage exchange. To dismantling Hamas and armed resistance from Palestinians? Stop ethnically cleansing the West Bank and remove the boot from their necks so that people in Gaza see that there is a better way and that going down fighting is not the only choice. Plenty of alternatives to death and destruction when those are not the actual goal itself. Of course those alternatives do not go hand in hand with the idea of an ethnically-cleansed Greater Israel, so here we are.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    What boot was on the neck of Gaza prior to the October attacks. Hamas had full autonomy over the strip. No?
    - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
      All that is just an internet search away, and provides an endless list. Let us ignore the major bombings of Gaza in 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2021, 2022. How about the following few: Jewish Voice for Peace giving a timeline of major violence against Palestinians for about a year before 2023-10-07: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/ https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-... 2023-09-18: "2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank" https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-ye... HRW on the above: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-... 2023-01-13: "Last year Israeli forces killed at least 146 Palestinians, including 34 children, the Israeli rights group B’Tselem reported" https://apnews.com/article/politics-israel-government-palestinian-territories-west-bank-68f7590fe86ca7dc7b37e5775e41d711 https://apnews.com/article/politics-israel-government-palest...
      - flyinglizard 3y ago
        You mix Gaza and West Bank and conveniently ignore the fact that each of those bombings in Gaza came after indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli civilians.
bloaf 3y ago
There is a great reason for doing it: nothing else has worked. Unilateral withdrawal from Gaza led to the tripling of rocket attacks. Multiple peace offers have been rejected. Limited Israeli retaliation and extensive international aid has meant the Palestinian civilian population is sufficiently insulated from the violence that they have no incentive to demand peace from their leaders. When Palestine was sending children as suicide bombers, Israel decided to play defense and built walls that dramatically lowered the efficacy of suicide bombings. So the Palestinians switched to rockets. So Israel again played defense and built the iron dome. So Hamas switched to Oct. 7th. Do you think they should play defense again? Tell me: what peace offer do you think Israel could make the Palestinians that would lead to a lasting peace? Tell me: if Israel surrendered unconditionally to the Palestinians, would the Israelis live in peace?
- mandmandam 3y ago
  These lines aren't working any more. You don't get to massacre tens of thousands of people because they fight back against brutal occupation and repeated massacres, then paint yourself as the victim. The world's eyes are open. We've seen what happened to those WCK aid workers; to Hind Rajab, to Reem and Taleb, and all the others. We've seen the mosques, churches, hospitals destroyed, and the wilful, wanton disregard of international law and basic decency. What Israel has done over the last six months hasn't made Israelis safer, nor Jews. These atrocities won't ever be forgotten.
  - bloaf 3y ago
    There has been no period in the past nearly 100 years[0] when these two groups have not been fighting. I'm not assigning anyone "victim" status. I'm saying Israel is trying to end the conflict, and has run out of other options. You didn't answer my questions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    What happened to trigger the events of last October which in turn triggered this. Hamas had the run of Gaza and could have built whatever society they wanted there. They used that chance to built up for explicitly slaughtering civilians instead.

flyinglizard 3y ago

No one offered an alternative, either.

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
Alternative to accomplish what exactly? To get hostages back? Hostage exchange. To dismantling Hamas and armed resistance from Palestinians? Stop ethnically cleansing the West Bank and remove the boot from their necks so that people in Gaza see that there is a better way and that going down fighting is not the only choice. Plenty of alternatives to death and destruction when those are not the actual goal itself. Of course those alternatives do not go hand in hand with the idea of an ethnically-cleansed Greater Israel, so here we are.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  What boot was on the neck of Gaza prior to the October attacks. Hamas had full autonomy over the strip. No?
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
    All that is just an internet search away, and provides an endless list. Let us ignore the major bombings of Gaza in 2006, 2008, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2021, 2022. How about the following few: Jewish Voice for Peace giving a timeline of major violence against Palestinians for about a year before 2023-10-07: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/ https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-... 2023-09-18: "2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank" https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-ye... HRW on the above: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-... 2023-01-13: "Last year Israeli forces killed at least 146 Palestinians, including 34 children, the Israeli rights group B’Tselem reported" https://apnews.com/article/politics-israel-government-palestinian-territories-west-bank-68f7590fe86ca7dc7b37e5775e41d711 https://apnews.com/article/politics-israel-government-palest...
    - flyinglizard 3y ago
      You mix Gaza and West Bank and conveniently ignore the fact that each of those bombings in Gaza came after indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli civilians.

bloaf 3y ago

There is a great reason for doing it: nothing else has worked. Unilateral withdrawal from Gaza led to the tripling of rocket attacks. Multiple peace offers have been rejected. Limited Israeli retaliation and extensive international aid has meant the Palestinian civilian population is sufficiently insulated from the violence that they have no incentive to demand peace from their leaders. When Palestine was sending children as suicide bombers, Israel decided to play defense and built walls that dramatically lowered the efficacy of suicide bombings. So the Palestinians switched to rockets. So Israel again played defense and built the iron dome. So Hamas switched to Oct. 7th. Do you think they should play defense again? Tell me: what peace offer do you think Israel could make the Palestinians that would lead to a lasting peace? Tell me: if Israel surrendered unconditionally to the Palestinians, would the Israelis live in peace?

mandmandam 3y ago
These lines aren't working any more. You don't get to massacre tens of thousands of people because they fight back against brutal occupation and repeated massacres, then paint yourself as the victim. The world's eyes are open. We've seen what happened to those WCK aid workers; to Hind Rajab, to Reem and Taleb, and all the others. We've seen the mosques, churches, hospitals destroyed, and the wilful, wanton disregard of international law and basic decency. What Israel has done over the last six months hasn't made Israelis safer, nor Jews. These atrocities won't ever be forgotten.
- bloaf 3y ago
  There has been no period in the past nearly 100 years[0] when these two groups have not been fighting. I'm not assigning anyone "victim" status. I'm saying Israel is trying to end the conflict, and has run out of other options. You didn't answer my questions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai
- xyzelement 3y ago
  What happened to trigger the events of last October which in turn triggered this. Hamas had the run of Gaza and could have built whatever society they wanted there. They used that chance to built up for explicitly slaughtering civilians instead.