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Did I miss it or does this not actually say what the cost of methane priced by them is? I see H2, DC power, and CO2 DAC, costs but no total.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Their whitepaper uses $10/kcf.
- pstrateman 3y ago
  I assume the whitepaper missed details of production that they have since had to account for. I'm quite curious what their cost is today.
- lucisferre 3y ago
  I have not done the math here in a long time, but as I understand it: You could produce about 8KG of CH4 with 2KG of H2 and 6KG of C or 22KG of CO2. At $250/MT would work out to about $5.50 and the 2kg of H2 would be $5 assuming $2.50/kg so lets say $10 for simplicity. 1kg of CH4 at STP is 1,396L (according to GPT since I'm lazy right now) which is about 50cf. That's not even close to $10kcf (assuming that this means killo-cubic-feet which as a Canadian makes me cringe).
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Interesting, let me try: A tonne of CO2 is 12/44 C, or 273kg. So let's call it $1/kg because 250 ~= 273. A kg of CH4 is 12/16 C and 4/16 H, so a kg is $0.75 for C + $2.50/4 for H = ~$1.40/kg. https://www.epa.gov/cmop/updated-coal-mine-methane-units-converter https://www.epa.gov/cmop/updated-coal-mine-methane-units-con... says 1000 cubic feet of methane is 19.26 kg. Call it 20 because we're doing it in our head. $1.40 * 20 = $28 / kcf.
    - lucisferre 3y ago
      Arrrg, this is what I get for answering this while distracted, I did not multiply by 8. So it was 400cf or 0.4kcf for $10, so yeah you are right. That's actually not terribly far off their white paper actually. It's not as good as current market prices $12/kcf but it is not so far off, particularly if you consider potential subsidies for capturing carbon. Thanks for that.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        On https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NngCHTImH1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NngCHTImH1g he says the goal is $100/tonne carbon capture and $1/kg H2, which puts those inputs well under the $10/kcf leaving some margin for the cost of the sabatier. Both processes are directly proportional to the cost of electricity and heat so assuming the thesis of decreasing solar costs holds true, it's a question of when not if.
        lucisferre 3y ago
        Yeah that would be pretty amazing.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Their whitepaper uses $10/kcf.

pstrateman 3y ago
I assume the whitepaper missed details of production that they have since had to account for. I'm quite curious what their cost is today.
lucisferre 3y ago
I have not done the math here in a long time, but as I understand it: You could produce about 8KG of CH4 with 2KG of H2 and 6KG of C or 22KG of CO2. At $250/MT would work out to about $5.50 and the 2kg of H2 would be $5 assuming $2.50/kg so lets say $10 for simplicity. 1kg of CH4 at STP is 1,396L (according to GPT since I'm lazy right now) which is about 50cf. That's not even close to $10kcf (assuming that this means killo-cubic-feet which as a Canadian makes me cringe).
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Interesting, let me try: A tonne of CO2 is 12/44 C, or 273kg. So let's call it $1/kg because 250 ~= 273. A kg of CH4 is 12/16 C and 4/16 H, so a kg is $0.75 for C + $2.50/4 for H = ~$1.40/kg. https://www.epa.gov/cmop/updated-coal-mine-methane-units-converter https://www.epa.gov/cmop/updated-coal-mine-methane-units-con... says 1000 cubic feet of methane is 19.26 kg. Call it 20 because we're doing it in our head. $1.40 * 20 = $28 / kcf.
  - lucisferre 3y ago
    Arrrg, this is what I get for answering this while distracted, I did not multiply by 8. So it was 400cf or 0.4kcf for $10, so yeah you are right. That's actually not terribly far off their white paper actually. It's not as good as current market prices $12/kcf but it is not so far off, particularly if you consider potential subsidies for capturing carbon. Thanks for that.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      On https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NngCHTImH1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NngCHTImH1g he says the goal is $100/tonne carbon capture and $1/kg H2, which puts those inputs well under the $10/kcf leaving some margin for the cost of the sabatier. Both processes are directly proportional to the cost of electricity and heat so assuming the thesis of decreasing solar costs holds true, it's a question of when not if.
      - lucisferre 3y ago
        Yeah that would be pretty amazing.