17 ms·

Avoiding Depression While Not Running a $1B Company

268 points by adam 14y ago

michaelpinto 14y ago
This post made me think of the book Outliers by Gladwell -- the Zucks and Gates of this world are very much a result of hard work, but they're also a result of being in exactly the right place at the right time. But I've got some good news: Most of you are quite young here and tech is filled with cycles. Maybe you don't get to be the next Gates or Jobs, but you could still be the next Larry Ellison or Michael Dell. I'd also remind everyone that tech is a fickle mistress, and that only about twelve years ago Steve Case was the conquering hero when AOL merged with Time Warner. Don't be depressed -- stay hungry, stay foolish!
- EricDeb 14y ago
  It's also good to realize that beyond about 50 million I doubt any person would even know what to do with that much money.... you basically end up donating a lot of it unless you are hellishly greedy
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ivanbernat 14y ago
As the 37signals guys put it: "What happened to building million dollar companies? It's all about making a billion dollar companies these days". So, seriously. If my company made a million a year I'd be the happiest bloke in the world!
- justin 14y ago
  You say that now. Not so easy to say once your company has been making a million a year for a while.
  - mistercow 14y ago
    Yeah, but if your company is making a million dollars per year and you aren't happy, then making a billion dollars a year wouldn't make you happy either. At that point, you're well past the point where money buys happiness.
    - citricsquid 14y ago
      A million is not a lot of money.
      - mistercow 14y ago
        Yes it is, but it's not a grotesque amount of money. Anyway, the whole point is that having enough money that money is not a major point of stress in your life will help you to be happy, but beyond that it starts to anticorrelate. If you have founded a company that is making a million a year (I'm assuming we're talking about profit and not revenue), and money is a major point of stress in your life, your best bet (in terms of personal happiness) is to change your lifestyle so that you're living within those means. Keep in mind, 99% of individuals in the world make less than $50k/year.
eldavido 14y ago
This is a great and much-needed article. Before I moved to SF, I lived in Seattle and had to make an effort to get more involved in tech. In SF, things are reversed: with a roommate in YC, another at Getaround, and a startup of my own, it takes work to escape it. As a community, I think we should discuss this (mental health in the echo chamber) a lot more.
Mz 14y ago
In some ways, this post really hits a nerve for me. In other ways, I cannot relate at all. On the one hand, the crap in my head is literally worth billions (annual medical care costs for the 30,000 people with cystic fibrosis is roughly $3 billion a year by my best guestimate or about $1.5 billion a year if you accept the low ball estimate of some article I read). Yet I am currently deeply in debt and homeless. Am I depressed? Not really, because I and my sons are healthy when that is not supposed to be possible. And that alone is worth millions, even if no one else benefits. But I am frothing at the mouth frustrated that a) I can't resolve my financial problems even though they are a drop in the bucket compared to what the medical expenses alone "should" be and b) I cannot seem to make much headway towards spreading the word. Yet, I also wrestle with valid concerns about self protection. Revealing myself tends to get strong reactions from people, both positive and negative. Those strong reactions can be potentially dangerous. Still trying to work it all out, in my head and in practical terms.
rgrieselhuber 14y ago
I learned a long time ago that you should never be jealous of anyone else's life and was reminded of this again (in a sad way) with the passing of Steve Jobs last year.
- nate 14y ago
  Very true. Have you read his biography? One of the things that also struck me the most in there is how often Steve seemed depressed even with all the "success". He seemed to be crying in so many stories. Even after every revolutionary thing he had accomplished, the launch of the iPad 1 made him depressed, because it just couldn't match his expectations. Another reminder that no matter how much you achieve or obtain, all of us have a sense of ambition that can easily ruin our happiness if we don't keep it in proper control.
  - rgrieselhuber 14y ago
    I haven't but I'm not too surprised. I don't think the ambition ever goes away. The reward of having as much of an impact as he did must be tangible. The money, probably not so much, after a certain point.
bcroesch 14y ago
I especially agree with the part about going for walks. I work from home a lot, and I walk to CVS to buy something almost every day, just so I can get out of the house. Amazing what 15 minutes without a screen in your face can do for your mental clarity.
- JonWood 14y ago
  Having just got to the end of a frustrating couple of days and realising I haven't left the house since Tuesday, I totally endorse this. And on that note, I'm going out.
- nate 14y ago
  Totally. And using the freedom of this time for any exercise has been incredibly useful for this too. It's awesome having the the gym practically to yourself in the middle of a weekday :)
- AznHisoka 14y ago
  I try walking outside too after sitting in front of a screen for hours in a row. When I do, I just marvel at all the colors around me. Wow.. treees.. ooh flowers! cool!
mgkimsal 14y ago
Said it before, and I'll say it again - much of the media we (hn-type readers) consume is 'tech porn'. Much like classic 'porn' reinforced a view of women as sexual objects, tech porn reinforces the myth that "just try harder and you'll be a billionaire!". Yes, I'm oversimplifying a bit, but I don't think by much. I think the mental/emotional harm that this sort of fixation on 'startups' has on many people is understated - we mourn the loss of someone to suicide, but say "he had other problems already". No 'founders' are ever comfortable talking to anyone about any fears/doubts because they will lose all respect from staff and investors, so there's an emotional toll being taken on a small (but growing) group of people.
- alaskamiller 14y ago
  Having seen the sausage getting made I now no longer eat sausages.
- psychotik 14y ago
  Lot of good advice on dealing with the $ aspect of this at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974781
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Much like classic 'porn' reinforced a view of women as sexual objects, tech porn reinforces the myth that "just try harder and you'll be a billionaire!". Damnit, Kimsal, quit dashing my dreams!!! Take your cold, hard reality and pitch it somebody who wants it... I prefer living in a world where I can be a billionaire someday. As I've said numerous times.. I'd make a great billionaire playboy; if only I had a billion dollars. :-)
  - mgkimsal 14y ago
    Quickest way to become a billionaire is to start off a mega-billionaire and then try your hand at investing... FWIW, you would make an awesome billionaire playboy. Even a decent millionaire playboy someday. ;)
    - 14y ago
petercooper 14y ago
Depends if you want the fame and kudos (and stress!) that comes with leading one of these companies. I know the feeling you're describing but have come to realize I'd much rather have, say, a $5m/year revenue doing something I love in peace than to be running some giant megacorp. Of course, still quite a way to go on that one for me.. ;-)
- thibaut_barrere 14y ago
  My thoughts exactly :) Even, $5m/y is far above my threshold.
  - petercooper 14y ago
    Well yeah, I just pulled that number out of nowhere ;-) Thinking about it more seriously, it'd be closer to one!
    - thibaut_barrere 14y ago
      Yes, one million would be perfect actually for us :) Let's see how it goes.
    - zeroonetwothree 14y ago
      Yes it would be hard to get by with less than $1 million/yr.
      - petercooper 14y ago
        We're in a thread talking about personal success and ambition, not what we need to survive.
- teamonkey 14y ago
  I think I could put up with it for a year or so. That's all I'd need to be financially independent for the rest of my life.
Zash 14y ago
Next on Hacker News: Avoiding Depression While Actually Running a $1B Company
- eykanal 14y ago
  If only...
dkrich 14y ago
You might as well ignore Facebook and Instagram. If you want to be a billionaire, creating a social media company is probably the worst way to do it. Reading and obsessing over this kind of news is toxic for your brain. If that kind of stuff gets to you, I would suggest the opposite of what the author did- don't read the news. These days there is very little valuable information because every media company is competing for eyeballs so they each try to out-do each other with sensational, deceptive and in some cases completely false headlines. I can't help but feel dumber every time I read Bloomberg news or the Wall Street Journal. Just don't do it. Go on a news diet for a week and see if you don't feel better and if you miss out on any important news.
- Deezul 14y ago
  This got me wondering how many people have built successful products and businesses with the sole intent of making it big? In other words, if your end game is cashing out 1 billion, are you crippling your full potential? Are the real successes born out of greater passions? Happenstance plays its part for sure, but that’s part of my point. Not barring ones drive to hack and tinker, what might you be doing if money wasn’t the goal? What would you build and what road would that take you down?
  - dkrich 14y ago
    I don't think there is any one rule that applies to everybody. Some people are just very skilled at making money. Warren Buffett has said that he always wanted to be rich. Others came into extreme wealth out of dumb luck and great timing (this seems more in line with Facebook and Google). The only common thread that I see is that to be successful you have to be doing something that you are very good at. That is a lot harder than it sounds because a lot of people feel pressured to do things that they really suck at but convince themselves that they are good at.
    - azov 14y ago
      Facebook - yes, but calling Google "dumb luck"? I mean - the only difference between FB and many other social networks is that everybody happened to be on FB. Of course it takes enormous amount of skill to operate on this scale, but if all those people weren't on FB, they would be on one of those other social networks doing more or less the same thing. But Google is different. I mean - do you even remember how people used internet before Google? Google was not just "marginally better, more popular AltaVista", it dramatically changed the way we do things online. And then it did it again with GMail. Not to forget Android (though it's not in the same league as search & email). Anyway, Google had a good deal of luck and good timing, but it was by no way "dumb".
laconian 14y ago
Not having a billion dollars is depressing for you? This takes first world problems to a whole new level.
- seiji 14y ago
  It's much more subtle. The problem isn't money. The problem is: "it could have been me!" "Why didn't I do this?" We were all sapient when this mess started. (Hell, it's still starting. When the iPhone launched, Blackberry had 10 million devices in the entire world (sold over 8 years). Apple sold over 70 million iPhones in the past two quarters. We're still very much in the technology up and to the right phase.) Back to the depressing bit -- you must face the fact you did not do this. You are not rich. You must admit to yourself they won because they were either: first, smarter, or they cheated. It's easy to say they cheated. They stole data. They "hacked." They lied on contracts. They ignored authority and did it anyway. They had their magical parent funds to fall back on (see: microsoft). We are not them, but that means we can blindside them next time. With the saturation of technology, companies providing ego-level services seem important because it's what brains will gravitate towards. With the saturation of technology, we get these never-before-seen billion user companies. The first is unique, then it becomes passé. Let them figure the basics out then zoom past them next time. Remember: companies are slow moving monuments to failure. Use their size against them. Life isn't fair. If "teh social" is the most important accomplishment of humanity (you would think based on how much people talk about it), please shoot me now. As for me, I'm still betting on PointCast.
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  It's less about the billion dollars and more about continuing to work without submitting to the temptation of comparison.
- RedwoodCity 14y ago
  The title was simply meant to get your attention. If you read the whole article the advice given could be applied to anyone working at or running a tech company who is frustrated with their life. You might be surprised to know that many people in third world countries are frustrated with their lives too. For example there are multiple Asian countries with higher suicide rates than the US and Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra... If anything this kind of venting and sharing is a healthy coping mechanism.
mojaam 14y ago
Just tweeted this to the author and thought I cross-post it here as well: Wonderful piece, I just had those same thoughts in the midst of all this facebook IPO frenzy... stay hungry, humble, and healthy! (Hmm, I can call it the three H's :))
iusable 14y ago
Love this post! Needed to be said and resaid, as many times as we hear 'Go $1B or Kill Yourself!'
danko 14y ago
This is a good companion piece to another recent HN post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3991122 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3991122 I've found two axioms to hold true: 1) Don't compare your life to anyone's. Just don't. Comparing any two lives is fundamentally apples to oranges, because each life is its own thing. 2) Once you've got the bottom tier of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs covered well enough where you can feel assured that it'll stay covered, money doesn't buy much happiness.
raphaelb 14y ago
It seems as humans we jump on any chance to beat ourselves up for not doing, being, or having something. Oh, I don't have a $1B company, I've got to beat myself up about it. Oh, I'm older than So and So 20 year old who sold his company for $15M. Oh, I'm too young to have the right experience to really tap into this niche. Oh, I spent too much on college and now have all this debt and need to get a real job instead of starting my business. Oh, I didn't go to college and everyone else my age has great connections from it. Just stop playing A you lose, B you lose.
- seiji 14y ago
  A reminder I find useful: Code, not anger. Find yourself annoyed about something "unfair?" Focus on a problem you can actually fix instead. If you find yourself upset about kids who went to a $40k/year private high school winning the world, just re-focus your attention on what you can do now. Code. Fix. Help a real person. Get out of your own head for a while. Success and growth are fueled by output. Running circles in your mind about our broken world only serves to make you more efficient at feeling angry. Use your limited conscious hours every day to make the world a quantitatively better place. Alternatively, http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/whipass/ http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/whipass/
- wickedchicken 14y ago
  This basic principle, condensed into a comic: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2347 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2347 A smart way to avoid this is to realize that sometimes "your brain wants to feel bad, so it's determined to find a reason to feel that way." If you were feeling great and now feel awful because of a thought (or reading unrelated news), then this is probably what happened.
aspir 14y ago
Thanks for posting this. I kind of needed it. Recent projects are getting pretty tough, to the point of looking for a supplementary job, and the job search itself isn't any easier. I'm not in any kind of "bad spot" mentally, but it is reassuring to know that I'm not the only one who feels somewhat unaccomplished in light of the incessant tech news chaos.
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  I'll tell you what I came here to tell the author of the post. You should read "Fooled by Randomness" by Nicholas Nassim Taleb. One of the major points of the book is that wealth that comes fast usually leaves fast, and wealth that is built slowly is usually harder to lose. This is a natural consequence of the "hidden histories"—the probabilities in play. It's not sexy, but building your wealth slowly is a better way to live.
aw3c2 14y ago
I can highly recommend NOT following the "Read the newspaper" and applying the same for TV/Radio. Most of what is broadcasted is negative news. I rather live in a happy fun place.
pedrocarvalho 14y ago
The problem is that there seems to be only one definition for success (lots of money and being talked about in the news) and we tend to compare ourselves and others against that measure of success. Running a lifestyle business and creating a handful of jobs, taking care of your family and friends, helping the needed, being an excellent teacher, having an healthy lifestyle, (insert here what makes you get up in the morning) are also huge successes, they just don't make the news.
gawker 14y ago
Thanks for the post. You put it into perspective for me really. Been feeling abit down over the past few days obsessing about how I should've worked harder instead of fooling around with my time. I have a full-time job and I take school part-time but I'm still trying to push myself in hopes of bootstrapping a startup.
jryce 14y ago
Or just try not to do it for the money and/or fame. But that of course is easier said than done for many out there already.
adamsilver 14y ago
Pathetic post on how to give up more easily.
mmaunder 14y ago
You need this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLjyo51qmrI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLjyo51qmrI
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espadagroup 14y ago
It seems strange that a good data prediction company (Inkling) couldn't become a huge growth company with a $1 billion+ valuation. Obviously this is an arm chair opinion but it seems like the author would like to be in the position of these other companies, so presumably the reason for not is due to some combination of business, market, etc.. Which is the part I don't entirely agree on. Inkling seems like a great idea in a market that people and companies would pay big bucks for if you're good at it, am I wrong?
keiferski 14y ago
I think it helps to remember that the most influential (or smartest, etc.) people in history didn't have a whole lot of resources. Compare Shakespeare and Nietzsche to Vanderbilt and Rockefeller. Will anyone care about the latter two in 100 years? If you're chasing fame or "impact", building Google might not be the answer.
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Compare Shakespeare and Nietzsche to Vanderbilt and Rockefeller. In what regards? If the metric is "who got laid more?" then I'm guessing Vanderbilt and Rockefeller win. If it's "who left more of a mark on history," then sure, Nietzsche and Shakespeare, hands down. So the question is, what's your priority?
rmATinnovafy 14y ago
I know that I just can't compete. So I focus on working. $1B? I can't even fathom that much money.
jayliew 14y ago
I know how that feels. Last year when I was a single founder, I went to a startup-founder "health" event at 500 Startups, and one of the speakers (ex-Zynga corp dev guy, Bret) gave a talk. Since he's the one acquiring companies, he mentioned how sometimes founders made money still found a way to be unhappy. Going from $0 to $10M is huuuuuge, but after a short while they're depressed that it isn't $100M. It sounded like he has went through a lot himself, and he recommended the audience a book, which I bought, read, re-read, and still read a few pages a day today - and it really helps. Don't let the cover fool you, this has nothing to do with preaching about religion (I remain agnostic). I can't recommend it enough: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062512943?ie=UTF8&tag=sunjaytimes-20&linkCode=shr&camp=213733&creative=393185&creativeASIN=0062512943 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062512943?ie=UTF8&tag=...
fotoblur 14y ago
Great article and admittedly is how I feel sometimes as well. The day I heard of the $1B Instagram acquisition was a cloudy day for me since I also founded a photo social network over 4 years ago that is humming along slowly. In Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman there is a section on media and how it mostly, and understandably, reports the more interesting edge cases. However a side effect of this causes the majority of people to believe car crashes are more common than heart attacks and often leads to poor judgements by utilization of the availability heuristic (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic). The take home message for me is keep on keeping on.
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- mindcrime 14y ago
  That is a weird thing to want. So is wanting a six-foot tall, red-headed super-model with a Scottish accent. But I still want one. And if I ran a billion dollar company, I might A. be able to spend time searching the world for one, and B. actually woo her (even if she does just like me for my money). So, yeah, I want something weird, indirectly, because I want something even weirder. Weird, huh?
jshowa 14y ago
To be quite honest, those valuations are probably way WAY to high. After all, Facebook just went public so that 100 billion dollar valuation is probably stretching it since companies are starting realize that Facebook adds generate little value. Its good that you have a sense of perspective about this and you don't let the money aspect go to your head. After all, I find it enormously grotesque that these Internet companies are valued so high since one change of management or one new thing can make you become obsolete (MySpace and Yahoo are good examples). Don't let it get to you, the whole point is that you have your own business and its still there. You can also just think of it as $100 billion of inflated currency. (21.8% to be exact when Facebook was created in 2004 to now).
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Instagram and Pinterest are looking like the peak right now. Neither of them would get that valuation next week.
twfarland 14y ago
Dude. It is ok. The huge valuation these guys had for their flippant startup in 2012 will be of little importance in the long run, and when we are on our deathbeds.
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douglee650 14y ago
stop crying in public
vchoi 14y ago
"A couple of years ago, I realized that I was not the material of which great artists are made and that I was rather glad I wasn't. And since then I have been happier simply to do the work and to take the reward at the end of every day that is given for a day of honest work." - John Steinbeck in August 1933
mikescar 14y ago
Or stated in another way: just do something you love and aim high. The author lists a lot of good points but it boils down to "keeping it real" and keeping your friends, family, and personal life at arm's reach. "Avoiding Depression While Not Running a $1B Company" just sounds a bit extreme.
chmike 14y ago
Is beeing rich the only goal of an entrepreneur ? It that was true the world would be full of depressed people. I would suggest to pick a goal that is achievable to avoid a persistant frustration later. Another point is that the impression to be trapped in an unsatisfying situation can also lead to depression. Anticipate a way out. Build a company that doesn't depend on you to run it and that leaves you free time to try other ideas. You won't be trapped.
rehack 14y ago
Honestly don't like billion being mentioned too many times on this page (perhaps it is because the article itself says it). I am reminded of what Derek Sivers said sometime after the movie 'Social Network' came out. 'A billion dollars is not cool, you know what's cool ... A million dollars'. (can't find in which video he said that) I believe nobody can plan to be a billionaire. But people can plan to be millionaires. And I think the blog post does articulate a healthy way of doing it. But I wonder, why would a person feel depressed at all about not being a billionaire. I think its foolish to even dream about it, really. But, if you just find yourself being one anyway, good then, deal with it. Else, try to be a millionaire, and then take it as it comes.
jroseattle 14y ago
I have mixed feelings about this post. The advice is good, but the tone is negative. Ironically, I'd suggest the advice be relied upon if one became wealthy. On the one hand is the hubris of it all. Dejected over not being a billionaire? More so than money, what one needs in that context is perspective. I have colleagues, friends and business partners who fall in the category of highly financially successful. Extreme wealth comes with more trouble than one might expect. Anonymity? Good luck with that. Jealousy from friends? A lot. Thrill quotient goes way, way WAY up? Like clockwork. Your personality changes? Big time. Still feel unfulfilled? Almost guaranteed. Biggie was right -- mo money, mo problems. On the other hand is dealing with your goals, and whether or not you have attained them. If your goal is to acquire a billion dollars...well, shoot for higher ground (not higher dollars.) Financial happiness and comfort is one thing, but a specific number has more to do with ego. Money, as a goal, just doesn't equate to feelings of accomplishment. Instead, set your goals to non-financial things; it's the only way one can ever really satisfy those feelings of reward. BTW, all those I've know who generated their own wealth did so without a primary focus of acquiring wealth -- it was a byproduct of their actions. They were driven by something else, the money was just a consequence.

268 points by adam 14y ago

This post made me think of the book Outliers by Gladwell -- the Zucks and Gates of this world are very much a result of hard work, but they're also a result of being in exactly the right place at the right time. But I've got some good news: Most of you are quite young here and tech is filled with cycles. Maybe you don't get to be the next Gates or Jobs, but you could still be the next Larry Ellison or Michael Dell. I'd also remind everyone that tech is a fickle mistress, and that only about twelve years ago Steve Case was the conquering hero when AOL merged with Time Warner. Don't be depressed -- stay hungry, stay foolish!

EricDeb 14y ago
It's also good to realize that beyond about 50 million I doubt any person would even know what to do with that much money.... you basically end up donating a lot of it unless you are hellishly greedy

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ivanbernat 14y ago

As the 37signals guys put it: "What happened to building million dollar companies? It's all about making a billion dollar companies these days". So, seriously. If my company made a million a year I'd be the happiest bloke in the world!

justin 14y ago
You say that now. Not so easy to say once your company has been making a million a year for a while.
- mistercow 14y ago
  Yeah, but if your company is making a million dollars per year and you aren't happy, then making a billion dollars a year wouldn't make you happy either. At that point, you're well past the point where money buys happiness.
  - citricsquid 14y ago
    A million is not a lot of money.
    - mistercow 14y ago
      Yes it is, but it's not a grotesque amount of money. Anyway, the whole point is that having enough money that money is not a major point of stress in your life will help you to be happy, but beyond that it starts to anticorrelate. If you have founded a company that is making a million a year (I'm assuming we're talking about profit and not revenue), and money is a major point of stress in your life, your best bet (in terms of personal happiness) is to change your lifestyle so that you're living within those means. Keep in mind, 99% of individuals in the world make less than $50k/year.

eldavido 14y ago

This is a great and much-needed article. Before I moved to SF, I lived in Seattle and had to make an effort to get more involved in tech. In SF, things are reversed: with a roommate in YC, another at Getaround, and a startup of my own, it takes work to escape it. As a community, I think we should discuss this (mental health in the echo chamber) a lot more.

Mz 14y ago

In some ways, this post really hits a nerve for me. In other ways, I cannot relate at all. On the one hand, the crap in my head is literally worth billions (annual medical care costs for the 30,000 people with cystic fibrosis is roughly $3 billion a year by my best guestimate or about $1.5 billion a year if you accept the low ball estimate of some article I read). Yet I am currently deeply in debt and homeless. Am I depressed? Not really, because I and my sons are healthy when that is not supposed to be possible. And that alone is worth millions, even if no one else benefits. But I am frothing at the mouth frustrated that a) I can't resolve my financial problems even though they are a drop in the bucket compared to what the medical expenses alone "should" be and b) I cannot seem to make much headway towards spreading the word. Yet, I also wrestle with valid concerns about self protection. Revealing myself tends to get strong reactions from people, both positive and negative. Those strong reactions can be potentially dangerous. Still trying to work it all out, in my head and in practical terms.

rgrieselhuber 14y ago

I learned a long time ago that you should never be jealous of anyone else's life and was reminded of this again (in a sad way) with the passing of Steve Jobs last year.

nate 14y ago
Very true. Have you read his biography? One of the things that also struck me the most in there is how often Steve seemed depressed even with all the "success". He seemed to be crying in so many stories. Even after every revolutionary thing he had accomplished, the launch of the iPad 1 made him depressed, because it just couldn't match his expectations. Another reminder that no matter how much you achieve or obtain, all of us have a sense of ambition that can easily ruin our happiness if we don't keep it in proper control.
- rgrieselhuber 14y ago
  I haven't but I'm not too surprised. I don't think the ambition ever goes away. The reward of having as much of an impact as he did must be tangible. The money, probably not so much, after a certain point.

bcroesch 14y ago

I especially agree with the part about going for walks. I work from home a lot, and I walk to CVS to buy something almost every day, just so I can get out of the house. Amazing what 15 minutes without a screen in your face can do for your mental clarity.

JonWood 14y ago
Having just got to the end of a frustrating couple of days and realising I haven't left the house since Tuesday, I totally endorse this. And on that note, I'm going out.
nate 14y ago
Totally. And using the freedom of this time for any exercise has been incredibly useful for this too. It's awesome having the the gym practically to yourself in the middle of a weekday :)
AznHisoka 14y ago
I try walking outside too after sitting in front of a screen for hours in a row. When I do, I just marvel at all the colors around me. Wow.. treees.. ooh flowers! cool!

mgkimsal 14y ago

Said it before, and I'll say it again - much of the media we (hn-type readers) consume is 'tech porn'. Much like classic 'porn' reinforced a view of women as sexual objects, tech porn reinforces the myth that "just try harder and you'll be a billionaire!". Yes, I'm oversimplifying a bit, but I don't think by much. I think the mental/emotional harm that this sort of fixation on 'startups' has on many people is understated - we mourn the loss of someone to suicide, but say "he had other problems already". No 'founders' are ever comfortable talking to anyone about any fears/doubts because they will lose all respect from staff and investors, so there's an emotional toll being taken on a small (but growing) group of people.

alaskamiller 14y ago
Having seen the sausage getting made I now no longer eat sausages.
psychotik 14y ago
Lot of good advice on dealing with the $ aspect of this at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974781
mindcrime 14y ago
Much like classic 'porn' reinforced a view of women as sexual objects, tech porn reinforces the myth that "just try harder and you'll be a billionaire!". Damnit, Kimsal, quit dashing my dreams!!! Take your cold, hard reality and pitch it somebody who wants it... I prefer living in a world where I can be a billionaire someday. As I've said numerous times.. I'd make a great billionaire playboy; if only I had a billion dollars. :-)
- mgkimsal 14y ago
  Quickest way to become a billionaire is to start off a mega-billionaire and then try your hand at investing... FWIW, you would make an awesome billionaire playboy. Even a decent millionaire playboy someday. ;)
  - 14y ago

petercooper 14y ago

Depends if you want the fame and kudos (and stress!) that comes with leading one of these companies. I know the feeling you're describing but have come to realize I'd much rather have, say, a $5m/year revenue doing something I love in peace than to be running some giant megacorp. Of course, still quite a way to go on that one for me.. ;-)

thibaut_barrere 14y ago
My thoughts exactly :) Even, $5m/y is far above my threshold.
- petercooper 14y ago
  Well yeah, I just pulled that number out of nowhere ;-) Thinking about it more seriously, it'd be closer to one!
  - thibaut_barrere 14y ago
    Yes, one million would be perfect actually for us :) Let's see how it goes.
  - zeroonetwothree 14y ago
    Yes it would be hard to get by with less than $1 million/yr.
    - petercooper 14y ago
      We're in a thread talking about personal success and ambition, not what we need to survive.
teamonkey 14y ago
I think I could put up with it for a year or so. That's all I'd need to be financially independent for the rest of my life.

Zash 14y ago

Next on Hacker News: Avoiding Depression While Actually Running a $1B Company

eykanal 14y ago
If only...

dkrich 14y ago

You might as well ignore Facebook and Instagram. If you want to be a billionaire, creating a social media company is probably the worst way to do it. Reading and obsessing over this kind of news is toxic for your brain. If that kind of stuff gets to you, I would suggest the opposite of what the author did- don't read the news. These days there is very little valuable information because every media company is competing for eyeballs so they each try to out-do each other with sensational, deceptive and in some cases completely false headlines. I can't help but feel dumber every time I read Bloomberg news or the Wall Street Journal. Just don't do it. Go on a news diet for a week and see if you don't feel better and if you miss out on any important news.

Deezul 14y ago
This got me wondering how many people have built successful products and businesses with the sole intent of making it big? In other words, if your end game is cashing out 1 billion, are you crippling your full potential? Are the real successes born out of greater passions? Happenstance plays its part for sure, but that’s part of my point. Not barring ones drive to hack and tinker, what might you be doing if money wasn’t the goal? What would you build and what road would that take you down?
- dkrich 14y ago
  I don't think there is any one rule that applies to everybody. Some people are just very skilled at making money. Warren Buffett has said that he always wanted to be rich. Others came into extreme wealth out of dumb luck and great timing (this seems more in line with Facebook and Google). The only common thread that I see is that to be successful you have to be doing something that you are very good at. That is a lot harder than it sounds because a lot of people feel pressured to do things that they really suck at but convince themselves that they are good at.
  - azov 14y ago
    Facebook - yes, but calling Google "dumb luck"? I mean - the only difference between FB and many other social networks is that everybody happened to be on FB. Of course it takes enormous amount of skill to operate on this scale, but if all those people weren't on FB, they would be on one of those other social networks doing more or less the same thing. But Google is different. I mean - do you even remember how people used internet before Google? Google was not just "marginally better, more popular AltaVista", it dramatically changed the way we do things online. And then it did it again with GMail. Not to forget Android (though it's not in the same league as search & email). Anyway, Google had a good deal of luck and good timing, but it was by no way "dumb".

laconian 14y ago

Not having a billion dollars is depressing for you? This takes first world problems to a whole new level.

seiji 14y ago
It's much more subtle. The problem isn't money. The problem is: "it could have been me!" "Why didn't I do this?" We were all sapient when this mess started. (Hell, it's still starting. When the iPhone launched, Blackberry had 10 million devices in the entire world (sold over 8 years). Apple sold over 70 million iPhones in the past two quarters. We're still very much in the technology up and to the right phase.) Back to the depressing bit -- you must face the fact you did not do this. You are not rich. You must admit to yourself they won because they were either: first, smarter, or they cheated. It's easy to say they cheated. They stole data. They "hacked." They lied on contracts. They ignored authority and did it anyway. They had their magical parent funds to fall back on (see: microsoft). We are not them, but that means we can blindside them next time. With the saturation of technology, companies providing ego-level services seem important because it's what brains will gravitate towards. With the saturation of technology, we get these never-before-seen billion user companies. The first is unique, then it becomes passé. Let them figure the basics out then zoom past them next time. Remember: companies are slow moving monuments to failure. Use their size against them. Life isn't fair. If "teh social" is the most important accomplishment of humanity (you would think based on how much people talk about it), please shoot me now. As for me, I'm still betting on PointCast.
joelrunyon 14y ago
It's less about the billion dollars and more about continuing to work without submitting to the temptation of comparison.
RedwoodCity 14y ago
The title was simply meant to get your attention. If you read the whole article the advice given could be applied to anyone working at or running a tech company who is frustrated with their life. You might be surprised to know that many people in third world countries are frustrated with their lives too. For example there are multiple Asian countries with higher suicide rates than the US and Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra... If anything this kind of venting and sharing is a healthy coping mechanism.

mojaam 14y ago

Just tweeted this to the author and thought I cross-post it here as well: Wonderful piece, I just had those same thoughts in the midst of all this facebook IPO frenzy... stay hungry, humble, and healthy! (Hmm, I can call it the three H's :))

iusable 14y ago

Love this post! Needed to be said and resaid, as many times as we hear 'Go $1B or Kill Yourself!'

danko 14y ago

This is a good companion piece to another recent HN post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3991122 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3991122 I've found two axioms to hold true: 1) Don't compare your life to anyone's. Just don't. Comparing any two lives is fundamentally apples to oranges, because each life is its own thing. 2) Once you've got the bottom tier of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs covered well enough where you can feel assured that it'll stay covered, money doesn't buy much happiness.

raphaelb 14y ago

It seems as humans we jump on any chance to beat ourselves up for not doing, being, or having something. Oh, I don't have a $1B company, I've got to beat myself up about it. Oh, I'm older than So and So 20 year old who sold his company for $15M. Oh, I'm too young to have the right experience to really tap into this niche. Oh, I spent too much on college and now have all this debt and need to get a real job instead of starting my business. Oh, I didn't go to college and everyone else my age has great connections from it. Just stop playing A you lose, B you lose.

seiji 14y ago
A reminder I find useful: Code, not anger. Find yourself annoyed about something "unfair?" Focus on a problem you can actually fix instead. If you find yourself upset about kids who went to a $40k/year private high school winning the world, just re-focus your attention on what you can do now. Code. Fix. Help a real person. Get out of your own head for a while. Success and growth are fueled by output. Running circles in your mind about our broken world only serves to make you more efficient at feeling angry. Use your limited conscious hours every day to make the world a quantitatively better place. Alternatively, http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/whipass/ http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/whipass/
wickedchicken 14y ago
This basic principle, condensed into a comic: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2347 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2347 A smart way to avoid this is to realize that sometimes "your brain wants to feel bad, so it's determined to find a reason to feel that way." If you were feeling great and now feel awful because of a thought (or reading unrelated news), then this is probably what happened.

aspir 14y ago

Thanks for posting this. I kind of needed it. Recent projects are getting pretty tough, to the point of looking for a supplementary job, and the job search itself isn't any easier. I'm not in any kind of "bad spot" mentally, but it is reassuring to know that I'm not the only one who feels somewhat unaccomplished in light of the incessant tech news chaos.

fusiongyro 14y ago
I'll tell you what I came here to tell the author of the post. You should read "Fooled by Randomness" by Nicholas Nassim Taleb. One of the major points of the book is that wealth that comes fast usually leaves fast, and wealth that is built slowly is usually harder to lose. This is a natural consequence of the "hidden histories"—the probabilities in play. It's not sexy, but building your wealth slowly is a better way to live.

aw3c2 14y ago

I can highly recommend NOT following the "Read the newspaper" and applying the same for TV/Radio. Most of what is broadcasted is negative news. I rather live in a happy fun place.

pedrocarvalho 14y ago

The problem is that there seems to be only one definition for success (lots of money and being talked about in the news) and we tend to compare ourselves and others against that measure of success. Running a lifestyle business and creating a handful of jobs, taking care of your family and friends, helping the needed, being an excellent teacher, having an healthy lifestyle, (insert here what makes you get up in the morning) are also huge successes, they just don't make the news.

gawker 14y ago

Thanks for the post. You put it into perspective for me really. Been feeling abit down over the past few days obsessing about how I should've worked harder instead of fooling around with my time. I have a full-time job and I take school part-time but I'm still trying to push myself in hopes of bootstrapping a startup.

jryce 14y ago

Or just try not to do it for the money and/or fame. But that of course is easier said than done for many out there already.

adamsilver 14y ago

Pathetic post on how to give up more easily.

mmaunder 14y ago

You need this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLjyo51qmrI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLjyo51qmrI

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espadagroup 14y ago

It seems strange that a good data prediction company (Inkling) couldn't become a huge growth company with a $1 billion+ valuation. Obviously this is an arm chair opinion but it seems like the author would like to be in the position of these other companies, so presumably the reason for not is due to some combination of business, market, etc.. Which is the part I don't entirely agree on. Inkling seems like a great idea in a market that people and companies would pay big bucks for if you're good at it, am I wrong?

keiferski 14y ago

I think it helps to remember that the most influential (or smartest, etc.) people in history didn't have a whole lot of resources. Compare Shakespeare and Nietzsche to Vanderbilt and Rockefeller. Will anyone care about the latter two in 100 years? If you're chasing fame or "impact", building Google might not be the answer.

mindcrime 14y ago
Compare Shakespeare and Nietzsche to Vanderbilt and Rockefeller. In what regards? If the metric is "who got laid more?" then I'm guessing Vanderbilt and Rockefeller win. If it's "who left more of a mark on history," then sure, Nietzsche and Shakespeare, hands down. So the question is, what's your priority?

rmATinnovafy 14y ago

I know that I just can't compete. So I focus on working. $1B? I can't even fathom that much money.

jayliew 14y ago

I know how that feels. Last year when I was a single founder, I went to a startup-founder "health" event at 500 Startups, and one of the speakers (ex-Zynga corp dev guy, Bret) gave a talk. Since he's the one acquiring companies, he mentioned how sometimes founders made money still found a way to be unhappy. Going from $0 to $10M is huuuuuge, but after a short while they're depressed that it isn't $100M. It sounded like he has went through a lot himself, and he recommended the audience a book, which I bought, read, re-read, and still read a few pages a day today - and it really helps. Don't let the cover fool you, this has nothing to do with preaching about religion (I remain agnostic). I can't recommend it enough: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062512943?ie=UTF8&tag=sunjaytimes-20&linkCode=shr&camp=213733&creative=393185&creativeASIN=0062512943 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062512943?ie=UTF8&tag=...

fotoblur 14y ago

Great article and admittedly is how I feel sometimes as well. The day I heard of the $1B Instagram acquisition was a cloudy day for me since I also founded a photo social network over 4 years ago that is humming along slowly. In Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman there is a section on media and how it mostly, and understandably, reports the more interesting edge cases. However a side effect of this causes the majority of people to believe car crashes are more common than heart attacks and often leads to poor judgements by utilization of the availability heuristic (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic). The take home message for me is keep on keeping on.

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mindcrime 14y ago
That is a weird thing to want. So is wanting a six-foot tall, red-headed super-model with a Scottish accent. But I still want one. And if I ran a billion dollar company, I might A. be able to spend time searching the world for one, and B. actually woo her (even if she does just like me for my money). So, yeah, I want something weird, indirectly, because I want something even weirder. Weird, huh?

jshowa 14y ago

To be quite honest, those valuations are probably way WAY to high. After all, Facebook just went public so that 100 billion dollar valuation is probably stretching it since companies are starting realize that Facebook adds generate little value. Its good that you have a sense of perspective about this and you don't let the money aspect go to your head. After all, I find it enormously grotesque that these Internet companies are valued so high since one change of management or one new thing can make you become obsolete (MySpace and Yahoo are good examples). Don't let it get to you, the whole point is that you have your own business and its still there. You can also just think of it as $100 billion of inflated currency. (21.8% to be exact when Facebook was created in 2004 to now).

waterlesscloud 14y ago
Instagram and Pinterest are looking like the peak right now. Neither of them would get that valuation next week.

twfarland 14y ago

Dude. It is ok. The huge valuation these guys had for their flippant startup in 2012 will be of little importance in the long run, and when we are on our deathbeds.

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douglee650 14y ago

stop crying in public

vchoi 14y ago

"A couple of years ago, I realized that I was not the material of which great artists are made and that I was rather glad I wasn't. And since then I have been happier simply to do the work and to take the reward at the end of every day that is given for a day of honest work." - John Steinbeck in August 1933

mikescar 14y ago

Or stated in another way: just do something you love and aim high. The author lists a lot of good points but it boils down to "keeping it real" and keeping your friends, family, and personal life at arm's reach. "Avoiding Depression While Not Running a $1B Company" just sounds a bit extreme.

chmike 14y ago

Is beeing rich the only goal of an entrepreneur ? It that was true the world would be full of depressed people. I would suggest to pick a goal that is achievable to avoid a persistant frustration later. Another point is that the impression to be trapped in an unsatisfying situation can also lead to depression. Anticipate a way out. Build a company that doesn't depend on you to run it and that leaves you free time to try other ideas. You won't be trapped.

rehack 14y ago

Honestly don't like billion being mentioned too many times on this page (perhaps it is because the article itself says it). I am reminded of what Derek Sivers said sometime after the movie 'Social Network' came out. 'A billion dollars is not cool, you know what's cool ... A million dollars'. (can't find in which video he said that) I believe nobody can plan to be a billionaire. But people can plan to be millionaires. And I think the blog post does articulate a healthy way of doing it. But I wonder, why would a person feel depressed at all about not being a billionaire. I think its foolish to even dream about it, really. But, if you just find yourself being one anyway, good then, deal with it. Else, try to be a millionaire, and then take it as it comes.

jroseattle 14y ago

I have mixed feelings about this post. The advice is good, but the tone is negative. Ironically, I'd suggest the advice be relied upon if one became wealthy. On the one hand is the hubris of it all. Dejected over not being a billionaire? More so than money, what one needs in that context is perspective. I have colleagues, friends and business partners who fall in the category of highly financially successful. Extreme wealth comes with more trouble than one might expect. Anonymity? Good luck with that. Jealousy from friends? A lot. Thrill quotient goes way, way WAY up? Like clockwork. Your personality changes? Big time. Still feel unfulfilled? Almost guaranteed. Biggie was right -- mo money, mo problems. On the other hand is dealing with your goals, and whether or not you have attained them. If your goal is to acquire a billion dollars...well, shoot for higher ground (not higher dollars.) Financial happiness and comfort is one thing, but a specific number has more to do with ego. Money, as a goal, just doesn't equate to feelings of accomplishment. Instead, set your goals to non-financial things; it's the only way one can ever really satisfy those feelings of reward. BTW, all those I've know who generated their own wealth did so without a primary focus of acquiring wealth -- it was a byproduct of their actions. They were driven by something else, the money was just a consequence.