4 ms·

> If Apple decides it will stop growing, it will plow 100% of its profits in share buybacks (I bet op loves those!) and work hard to squeeze costs down. This ha

> If Apple decides it will stop growing, it will plow 100% of its profits in share buybacks (I bet op loves those!) and work hard to squeeze costs down. This happens routinely under private equity ownership. It's not all unicorn and rainbows. This is still just growth (in share price). I would say that the real alternative to growth is dividends. Plenty of grocery store chains are happy to putter along paying a solid quarterly dividend with meager yearly growth.

fra 3y ago
Three points: 1. Dividends and share buybacks are the exact same thing, just with a different tax treatment. 2. A share buyback should not in itself produce an increase in share price. You decrease the $ of shares on the market by the exact amount you decrease the $ on your balance sheet. 3. An increase in share price is not business growth.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  > Dividends and share buybacks are the exact same thing, just with a different tax treatment. That depends on the percentage of shares that are liquid. Shares can be locked up in options or other contracts so a buyback disproportionately affects the liquid capitalization rather than the fully diluted capitalization--a pretty significant difference from dividends. > A share buyback should not in itself produce an increase in share price. You decrease the $ of shares on the market by the exact amount you decrease the $ on your balance sheet. Decreasing supply while demand remains constant would in fact produce an increase in share price. Of course, demand doesn't remain constant, so it's not a guaranteed increase, but the general principle of supply and demand does apply here. > An increase in share price is not business growth. Agreed, but that's sort of the problem--it's supposed to be. One of the flaws of our stock market is that share price is so manipulable in so many ways that it's divorced from the value the company actually creates.

fra 3y ago

Three points: 1. Dividends and share buybacks are the exact same thing, just with a different tax treatment. 2. A share buyback should not in itself produce an increase in share price. You decrease the $ of shares on the market by the exact amount you decrease the $ on your balance sheet. 3. An increase in share price is not business growth.

kerkeslager 3y ago
> Dividends and share buybacks are the exact same thing, just with a different tax treatment. That depends on the percentage of shares that are liquid. Shares can be locked up in options or other contracts so a buyback disproportionately affects the liquid capitalization rather than the fully diluted capitalization--a pretty significant difference from dividends. > A share buyback should not in itself produce an increase in share price. You decrease the $ of shares on the market by the exact amount you decrease the $ on your balance sheet. Decreasing supply while demand remains constant would in fact produce an increase in share price. Of course, demand doesn't remain constant, so it's not a guaranteed increase, but the general principle of supply and demand does apply here. > An increase in share price is not business growth. Agreed, but that's sort of the problem--it's supposed to be. One of the flaws of our stock market is that share price is so manipulable in so many ways that it's divorced from the value the company actually creates.