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In the case of Al Qaeda, that might actually have been true? I don't think you can really compare Hamas to Al Qaeda; almost everything meaningful is different.

by arp242 3y ago

ceejayoz 3y ago
> In the case of Al Qaeda, that might actually have been true? Very clearly not, as admitted by the man himself. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/obama-says-u-s-drone-strikes-killed-civilians-that-shouldnt-have-been https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/obama-says-u-s-drone-stri...
- arp242 3y ago
  That doesn't mention Al Qaeda? It just talks about drone strikes against ISIS, which is yet again quite a different organisation than Al Qaeda and Hamas.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    So ISIS gives "hitchhike rides [to innocent neighbors] in the back of trucks headed for the border with guns and bombs"? If you want Al Qaeda-specific cases, they take about three seconds to find. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/18/pentagon-drone-strike-syria-civilian-al-qaeda/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/18/pentagon-dro..., for example. edit: The Yemen case cited in my link above was AQ; https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral/us-drone-attack-marriage-procession-yemen https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral... "They were an adult male near a target" is not a safe way of determining guilt for capital crimes. We should not accept it.
    - arp242 3y ago
      What is your point even? All I said is that you can't compare Al Qaeda and Hamas, and how they operate, and how to combat them. I never said that US drone strikes were/are 100% perfect, or even that I liked the entire programme.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        My point is "if they're near a target they're a target" is an insane standard to use for these sorts of strikes, and the article this entire HN discussion is about makes it pretty clear such a standard is in use in Gaza right now. > This was despite knowing that the system makes what are regarded as “errors” in approximately 10 percent of cases, and is known to occasionally mark individuals who have merely a loose connection to militant groups, or no connection at all. > Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. > “We were not interested in killing [Hamas] operatives only when they were in a military building or engaged in a military activity,” A., an intelligence officer, told +972 and Local Call. “On the contrary, the IDF bombed them in homes without hesitation, as a first option. It’s much easier to bomb a family’s home. The system is built to look for them in these situations.”

In the case of Al Qaeda, that might actually have been true? I don't think you can really compare Hamas to Al Qaeda; almost everything meaningful is different.

by arp242 3y ago

In the case of Al Qaeda, that might actually have been true? I don't think you can really compare Hamas to Al Qaeda; almost everything meaningful is different.

ceejayoz 3y ago

> In the case of Al Qaeda, that might actually have been true? Very clearly not, as admitted by the man himself. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/obama-says-u-s-drone-strikes-killed-civilians-that-shouldnt-have-been https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/obama-says-u-s-drone-stri...

arp242 3y ago
That doesn't mention Al Qaeda? It just talks about drone strikes against ISIS, which is yet again quite a different organisation than Al Qaeda and Hamas.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  So ISIS gives "hitchhike rides [to innocent neighbors] in the back of trucks headed for the border with guns and bombs"? If you want Al Qaeda-specific cases, they take about three seconds to find. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/18/pentagon-drone-strike-syria-civilian-al-qaeda/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/18/pentagon-dro..., for example. edit: The Yemen case cited in my link above was AQ; https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral/us-drone-attack-marriage-procession-yemen https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral... "They were an adult male near a target" is not a safe way of determining guilt for capital crimes. We should not accept it.
  - arp242 3y ago
    What is your point even? All I said is that you can't compare Al Qaeda and Hamas, and how they operate, and how to combat them. I never said that US drone strikes were/are 100% perfect, or even that I liked the entire programme.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      My point is "if they're near a target they're a target" is an insane standard to use for these sorts of strikes, and the article this entire HN discussion is about makes it pretty clear such a standard is in use in Gaza right now. > This was despite knowing that the system makes what are regarded as “errors” in approximately 10 percent of cases, and is known to occasionally mark individuals who have merely a loose connection to militant groups, or no connection at all. > Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. > “We were not interested in killing [Hamas] operatives only when they were in a military building or engaged in a military activity,” A., an intelligence officer, told +972 and Local Call. “On the contrary, the IDF bombed them in homes without hesitation, as a first option. It’s much easier to bomb a family’s home. The system is built to look for them in these situations.”