3 ms·

Today's 1/2 ton has the same capabilities as a 3/4 ton from 20 years ago. Payload, HP, torque. I own both. Objectively more usable.

reaperman 3y ago
“Usable” is not just towing and hauling ratings. It’s also “Can I grab my fucking groceries out of the bed without climbing up a ladder or crawling into the bed?” I drove trucks for >10 years. I know the tradeoffs (and I mentioned towing capacity already!). I like pickup trucks! I’m a truck guy! “Objectively more usable” based on “payload/HP/torque” is missing a LOT of usability metrics and is not purely objective at all - the vast majority truck owners would get more utility from better ergonomics even if improving that cost up to 20% of their “payload/HP/torque”. What you mean is “objectively more powerful”, not “objectively more usable”. Is a semi truck or Caterpillar 797F “objectively more usable” than an F-150 because they have “more payload, HP, torque”? Of course a semi truck is not objectively more usable than an F-150 - only objectively more powerful. Many people need yesterday’s half-ton. Many people would benefit from lower ride height, not having to use a ladder to reach into the bed or climb into the seats. Being able to see children in front of the vehicle. But it’s not available.
- stcroixx 3y ago
  Sounds like you'd find cars more 'usable' and don't need/use trucks for the unique things they offer, which is towing and hauling things bigger than groceries.
  - reaperman 3y ago
    Please don’t tell me what I need. I’ve used trucks for those purposes plenty, and I still do. There exists a large, underserved market for pickup trucks which can haul furniture or summer yard project material or tow my sailboat, but also be a good daily driver. Furthermore - when is the last time you shoveled one ton of sand/gravel/stone out of a pickup bed? It was a hell of a lot easier with a lower bed that I could reach farther into with a standard transfer shovel.
    - mckn1ght 3y ago
      > There exists a large, underserved market for pickup trucks which can haul furniture or summer yard project material or tow my sailboat, but also be a good daily driver. The market has signaled that it will pay obscene prices for a good truck. Maybe the reason we don’t have powerful trucks that can also be “good” (whatever that means–fuel efficient? less dangerous to pedestrians?) daily drivers is because it’s infeasible? > Furthermore - when is the last time you shoveled one ton of sand/gravel/stone out of a pickup bed? It was a hell of a lot easier with a lower bed that I could reach farther into with a standard transfer shovel. Last time I shoveled a ton of dirt from a pickup bed, I climbed up into the bed and shoveled it out from there.

reaperman 3y ago

“Usable” is not just towing and hauling ratings. It’s also “Can I grab my fucking groceries out of the bed without climbing up a ladder or crawling into the bed?” I drove trucks for >10 years. I know the tradeoffs (and I mentioned towing capacity already!). I like pickup trucks! I’m a truck guy! “Objectively more usable” based on “payload/HP/torque” is missing a LOT of usability metrics and is not purely objective at all - the vast majority truck owners would get more utility from better ergonomics even if improving that cost up to 20% of their “payload/HP/torque”. What you mean is “objectively more powerful”, not “objectively more usable”. Is a semi truck or Caterpillar 797F “objectively more usable” than an F-150 because they have “more payload, HP, torque”? Of course a semi truck is not objectively more usable than an F-150 - only objectively more powerful. Many people need yesterday’s half-ton. Many people would benefit from lower ride height, not having to use a ladder to reach into the bed or climb into the seats. Being able to see children in front of the vehicle. But it’s not available.

stcroixx 3y ago
Sounds like you'd find cars more 'usable' and don't need/use trucks for the unique things they offer, which is towing and hauling things bigger than groceries.
- reaperman 3y ago
  Please don’t tell me what I need. I’ve used trucks for those purposes plenty, and I still do. There exists a large, underserved market for pickup trucks which can haul furniture or summer yard project material or tow my sailboat, but also be a good daily driver. Furthermore - when is the last time you shoveled one ton of sand/gravel/stone out of a pickup bed? It was a hell of a lot easier with a lower bed that I could reach farther into with a standard transfer shovel.
  - mckn1ght 3y ago
    > There exists a large, underserved market for pickup trucks which can haul furniture or summer yard project material or tow my sailboat, but also be a good daily driver. The market has signaled that it will pay obscene prices for a good truck. Maybe the reason we don’t have powerful trucks that can also be “good” (whatever that means–fuel efficient? less dangerous to pedestrians?) daily drivers is because it’s infeasible? > Furthermore - when is the last time you shoveled one ton of sand/gravel/stone out of a pickup bed? It was a hell of a lot easier with a lower bed that I could reach farther into with a standard transfer shovel. Last time I shoveled a ton of dirt from a pickup bed, I climbed up into the bed and shoveled it out from there.