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What does Apple do to stop people migrating? I’m genuinely curious given the only consistent thing I’ve seen boils down to “we want to use iMessage without payi

by olliej 3y ago

What does Apple do to stop people migrating? I’m genuinely curious given the only consistent thing I’ve seen boils down to “we want to use iMessage without paying for it”

jmholla 3y ago
One I know I've ran into is that migrating passwords to a different provider requires a lot of pain (up to 5 unlocks per password) or purchasing a different Apple device (i.e., a Mac).
drekk 3y ago
Hardware lock-in, proprietary formats, and DRM. If you're heavily invested in Apple Services (iCloud, Apple Music, etc.) you will notice not everything is transferable or works on non-Apple devices. And the iMessage thing is silly. I have an iCloud account and own an apple device. It shouldn't matter from which device I ultimately send the messages. I'm still "paying for it".
ambago 3y ago
Strategically, quite a bit. Wired recently had a piece on this: https://www.wired.com/story/4-internal-apple-emails-helped-doj-build-antitrust-case/ https://www.wired.com/story/4-internal-apple-emails-helped-d... Matt Stoller also had a really great writeup: https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/why-the-apple-antitrust-suit-matters https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/why-the-apple-antitrust-s...
fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
I think the complaint about iMessage is more that people using the core SMS function on iPhones are automatically opted into iMessage, then get a worse experience when communicating with groups containing people who don’t have iPhones. It creates awkward social situations which nobody involved wanted to happen, and looks really exploitative.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  And yet this issue only seems to impact North America. So much so that the EU doesn't even consider iMessage a "gatekeeper" of the industry (WhatsApp is though).
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
    In Europe people have to pay to send SMS right? So people have a good reason to seek out alternatives like WhatsApp, which are cross-platform. There is no habit of using SMS. Therefore linking iMessage to SMS by default doesn’t create any network effect in EU like it does in US, where SMS is free.
    - Novosell 3y ago
      I've not had to pay for texts for well over 10 years, not sure when it went away. I've only lived in 3 european countries though.
      - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
        I’m curious of the history. Presumably people used SMS when it was the only option, and stopped at some point and installed message apps (but they never stopped in the US).
        simonh 3y ago
        Pure guess, but given the high market share of iPhones in the US in that demographic, it may actually be the higher usage of iMessage among young adults that prevented the ascendancy of WhatsApp there. I think this is all stupid. One the one hand the tech companies get slammed for not inter-operating, then Apple gets slammed for inter-operating. Loads of phones have come with vendor specific messaging apps and such, it's just that Apple committed the crime of making theirs decent and successful.
        fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
- Terretta 3y ago
  > people using the core SMS function on iPhones are automatically opted into iMessage This isn't the case. you have to make an iCloud account and Messages settings has to be set to use that iCloud account. Yes, you can do that by setting up a new phone with your iCloud account. But -- surprisingly -- you do not have to. You can set up and use most things about an iPhone without iCloud. You'll be missing FaceTime, iMessage, iCloud Backup, FindMy, and a few other things, which are parts of "services" rather than parts of the phone. // This is fresh in mind, as I recently bought a slew of "real SMS" phones for the workplace, since robo-fearing 2FA providers mostly refuse to work with e-SMS (and god bless vendors who won't use TOTP but think SMS is dandy). > then get a worse experience when communicating with groups containing people who don’t have iPhones And people who opted into email have a worse experience exchanging notes with families that don't have electronic devices. In general that's how lowest common denominators work.
  - windexh8er 3y ago
    > But -- surprisingly -- you do not have to. You've just described the dark pattern here that's allowed Apple to trick the majority of its user base into iMessage thereby creating a monopoly that may not have otherwise existed.
    - Terretta 3y ago
      What's the trick? If you read the screen, you can just choose not to create one, it's that easy.
lancesells 3y ago
If you can point me in the direction of a $1000 laptop that's equivalent to a Macbook Air, that also seamlessly works with an equivalent to a $350 iPhone, that also seamlessly works with an equivalent to a $300 iPad, that also seamlessly works with an equivalent to a $300 Apple Watch, that also seamlessly works with a $200 AirPods then I'll consider migrating. Also, it needs to not be tied to Google. Don't care at all about iMessage. Edit: Not an Apple apologist and have many, many gripes about their business practices and their software.
- hatsix 3y ago
  Nobody cares if you migrate. The lawsuit is not about Lance.
  - lancesells 3y ago
    It was in response to parent asking about what Apple does to stop people from migrating, but thanks for letting me know. > What does Apple do to stop people migrating?
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  I wouldn't want any of those devices in the first place because they're all locked-in trash. The first time I hit on something I couldn't do because of an arbitrary Apple limitation, I'd throw the thing in the garbage where it belongs.

by olliej 3y ago

What does Apple do to stop people migrating? I’m genuinely curious given the only consistent thing I’ve seen boils down to “we want to use iMessage without paying for it”

jmholla 3y ago

One I know I've ran into is that migrating passwords to a different provider requires a lot of pain (up to 5 unlocks per password) or purchasing a different Apple device (i.e., a Mac).

drekk 3y ago

Hardware lock-in, proprietary formats, and DRM. If you're heavily invested in Apple Services (iCloud, Apple Music, etc.) you will notice not everything is transferable or works on non-Apple devices. And the iMessage thing is silly. I have an iCloud account and own an apple device. It shouldn't matter from which device I ultimately send the messages. I'm still "paying for it".

ambago 3y ago

Strategically, quite a bit. Wired recently had a piece on this: https://www.wired.com/story/4-internal-apple-emails-helped-doj-build-antitrust-case/ https://www.wired.com/story/4-internal-apple-emails-helped-d... Matt Stoller also had a really great writeup: https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/why-the-apple-antitrust-suit-matters https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/why-the-apple-antitrust-s...

fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago

I think the complaint about iMessage is more that people using the core SMS function on iPhones are automatically opted into iMessage, then get a worse experience when communicating with groups containing people who don’t have iPhones. It creates awkward social situations which nobody involved wanted to happen, and looks really exploitative.

AniseAbyss 3y ago
And yet this issue only seems to impact North America. So much so that the EU doesn't even consider iMessage a "gatekeeper" of the industry (WhatsApp is though).
- fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
  In Europe people have to pay to send SMS right? So people have a good reason to seek out alternatives like WhatsApp, which are cross-platform. There is no habit of using SMS. Therefore linking iMessage to SMS by default doesn’t create any network effect in EU like it does in US, where SMS is free.
  - Novosell 3y ago
    I've not had to pay for texts for well over 10 years, not sure when it went away. I've only lived in 3 european countries though.
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
      I’m curious of the history. Presumably people used SMS when it was the only option, and stopped at some point and installed message apps (but they never stopped in the US).
      - simonh 3y ago
        Pure guess, but given the high market share of iPhones in the US in that demographic, it may actually be the higher usage of iMessage among young adults that prevented the ascendancy of WhatsApp there. I think this is all stupid. One the one hand the tech companies get slammed for not inter-operating, then Apple gets slammed for inter-operating. Loads of phones have come with vendor specific messaging apps and such, it's just that Apple committed the crime of making theirs decent and successful.
        fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
Terretta 3y ago
> people using the core SMS function on iPhones are automatically opted into iMessage This isn't the case. you have to make an iCloud account and Messages settings has to be set to use that iCloud account. Yes, you can do that by setting up a new phone with your iCloud account. But -- surprisingly -- you do not have to. You can set up and use most things about an iPhone without iCloud. You'll be missing FaceTime, iMessage, iCloud Backup, FindMy, and a few other things, which are parts of "services" rather than parts of the phone. // This is fresh in mind, as I recently bought a slew of "real SMS" phones for the workplace, since robo-fearing 2FA providers mostly refuse to work with e-SMS (and god bless vendors who won't use TOTP but think SMS is dandy). > then get a worse experience when communicating with groups containing people who don’t have iPhones And people who opted into email have a worse experience exchanging notes with families that don't have electronic devices. In general that's how lowest common denominators work.
- windexh8er 3y ago
  > But -- surprisingly -- you do not have to. You've just described the dark pattern here that's allowed Apple to trick the majority of its user base into iMessage thereby creating a monopoly that may not have otherwise existed.
  - Terretta 3y ago
    What's the trick? If you read the screen, you can just choose not to create one, it's that easy.

lancesells 3y ago

If you can point me in the direction of a $1000 laptop that's equivalent to a Macbook Air, that also seamlessly works with an equivalent to a $350 iPhone, that also seamlessly works with an equivalent to a $300 iPad, that also seamlessly works with an equivalent to a $300 Apple Watch, that also seamlessly works with a $200 AirPods then I'll consider migrating. Also, it needs to not be tied to Google. Don't care at all about iMessage. Edit: Not an Apple apologist and have many, many gripes about their business practices and their software.

hatsix 3y ago
Nobody cares if you migrate. The lawsuit is not about Lance.
- lancesells 3y ago
  It was in response to parent asking about what Apple does to stop people from migrating, but thanks for letting me know. > What does Apple do to stop people migrating?
brokenmachine 3y ago
I wouldn't want any of those devices in the first place because they're all locked-in trash. The first time I hit on something I couldn't do because of an arbitrary Apple limitation, I'd throw the thing in the garbage where it belongs.