4 ms·

It’s not just prices. I’m taller than 80% of Americans (6’0”) and I cannot effectively reach into the bed of a pickup truck. Used to be I could easily grab almo

It’s not just prices. I’m taller than 80% of Americans (6’0”) and I cannot effectively reach into the bed of a pickup truck. Used to be I could easily grab almost anything by reaching over the side or leaning on top of an opened tailgate. Now the trucks are so tall that the walls are higher than my armpit and the tailgate comes down to my nipples. I drove trucks a lot, split my time between city home with Mom and rural home in the middle of farms with Dad. Lots of backing up open hauling trailers (dirt, rocks, furniture, lumber, whatever) and boat trailers. Modern trucks are so much less usable than they were 25 years ago. They’re not just expensive, they’re impractical. Why would I pay more to get less? It’s past time to reform the CAFE standards to incentivize smaller trucks and slowly phase out the 25% “chicken tax” on imported trucks to let domestic manufacturers compete on design and quality. I’m also very uncomfortable driving around with the giant blind spot in front of the truck. This did not used to be a problem with my old pickup trucks. Now you need front cameras in addition to backup cameras just to not run over your own kids!? New trucks have some wonderful features but I don’t think theres any reason that smaller trucks couldn't have these too. These include higher towing capacity than in the past, 360 birds eye cameras, trailer back-up computer aid, apple carplay / android auto, excellent crash protection for passengers. Of those, the only two that size can affect are crash protection and towing capacity. I think you could still get most of the performance with a smaller truck that is more usable for 90% of the population.

xyst 3y ago
Because insecurity issues. Obviously.
nurple 3y ago
Agreed on the chicken tax. Man, I miss zooming around in my Toyota pickup.
foobarian 3y ago
You know what else? I've been toying with the idea of getting a pickup truck because I often go to home improvement stores and do other light transport of common construction materials. I've been doing this with a hatchback Focus for ages now and it's been working OK, but I keep thinking all these pickup truck owners must know something I don't. Then I realized you can't fit an 8' 2x4 into an average pickup truck bed, where it fits perfectly fine into my Focus. WTF?
- acdha 3y ago
  Also Home Depot will rent a truck which is actually usable for roughly $20/hour, which just for the difference in fuel prices or insurance versus your Focus you could probably do almost weekly.
- engineer_22 3y ago
  I have a sedan but also need to move things around. I bought a 1,700 lb trailer at harbor freight for around $500 and a tow hitch, and now I can do almost as much as someone with a pickup. Bonus, I get great gas mileage when not towing a load and auto parts on this vehicle are inexpensive. I've moved my motorcycle, industrial embroidery machine, lumber, tools, etc. all very comfortably. It might be nice to have more payload, but right now I dont need it, and very few people do.
- reaperman 3y ago
  Pickup bed sizes are egregiously small nowadays. Trailers are amazing if you have storage space for them. However, most non-pickups (SUV’s etc) max out at towing 1,500 lbs and most sedans rather less. I know europeans get away with much higher towing ratings on their sedans than American equivalents. I never could figure out if this was conspiracy in underrating American sedans to force sales of pickups, slight engineering upgrades specific to EU markets, or the fact that you just drive slower in Europe so there’s less stress on components allowing greater trailer weight.
- cityofdelusion 3y ago
  You don’t need an 8ft bed to haul 8ft material. I have a small truck with a 4.5ft bed and I move 12 ft boards and 4x8 sheet just fine.
  - foobarian 3y ago
    I realize people just lean things against the gate or leave the gate open, but I figure if I'm going to pony up mid 5 figures for a PICKUP truck things I pick up should at the very least fit no worse than in a little hatchback. :-)
- 3y ago
stcroixx 3y ago
Today's 1/2 ton has the same capabilities as a 3/4 ton from 20 years ago. Payload, HP, torque. I own both. Objectively more usable.
- reaperman 3y ago
  “Usable” is not just towing and hauling ratings. It’s also “Can I grab my fucking groceries out of the bed without climbing up a ladder or crawling into the bed?” I drove trucks for >10 years. I know the tradeoffs (and I mentioned towing capacity already!). I like pickup trucks! I’m a truck guy! “Objectively more usable” based on “payload/HP/torque” is missing a LOT of usability metrics and is not purely objective at all - the vast majority truck owners would get more utility from better ergonomics even if improving that cost up to 20% of their “payload/HP/torque”. What you mean is “objectively more powerful”, not “objectively more usable”. Is a semi truck or Caterpillar 797F “objectively more usable” than an F-150 because they have “more payload, HP, torque”? Of course a semi truck is not objectively more usable than an F-150 - only objectively more powerful. Many people need yesterday’s half-ton. Many people would benefit from lower ride height, not having to use a ladder to reach into the bed or climb into the seats. Being able to see children in front of the vehicle. But it’s not available.
  - stcroixx 3y ago
    Sounds like you'd find cars more 'usable' and don't need/use trucks for the unique things they offer, which is towing and hauling things bigger than groceries.
    - reaperman 3y ago
      Please don’t tell me what I need. I’ve used trucks for those purposes plenty, and I still do. There exists a large, underserved market for pickup trucks which can haul furniture or summer yard project material or tow my sailboat, but also be a good daily driver. Furthermore - when is the last time you shoveled one ton of sand/gravel/stone out of a pickup bed? It was a hell of a lot easier with a lower bed that I could reach farther into with a standard transfer shovel.
theluketaylor 3y ago
> It’s past time to reform the CAFE standards to incentivize smaller trucks Even neutralizing the CAFE standards to stop incentivizing bigger trucks would be a huge victory. Reducing the fuel economy target for larger vehicle footprints is one of the worst perverse incentives ever created. Not only are huge trucks emitting more carbon, but pedestrians are at much great risk of serious injury and death from tall grills and poor visibility.
cityofdelusion 3y ago
The chicken tax is largely no longer relevant as the U.S. market hardly imports any vehicles from overseas. It’s simply cheaper to manufacture in the U.S. or the Mexican border these days.
- reaperman 3y ago
  Is it possible that people don’t import many vehicles because the chicken tax applies to all the most popular models? A 25% tax is likely suppressing imports. I find it noteworthy that our domestic automakers have in some cases entirely stopped producing any vehicles which aren't protected by the chicken tax (i.e. Ford). Edit: It is shockingly difficult to find statistics on imports as a % of US market size, if you want to filter out Canada+Mexico and also separate cars vs. trucks. Everything either lumps Canada+Mexico into "imports" or fails to differentiate cars (not subject to chicken tax) vs. trucks (subject to chicken tax).
unethical_ban 3y ago
A 2024 F150 is at least as big, is heavier, and tows more than a 1996 F250. The 2024 Ford Ranger is as big as least, as the 1996 F150, and with 30% more power depending on engine. Perverse incentives with CAFE standards, and crash test requirements, encourage this bloat of weight. I would love a 2.3L turbo 4 cylinder in my old truck.

xyst 3y ago

Because insecurity issues. Obviously.

nurple 3y ago

Agreed on the chicken tax. Man, I miss zooming around in my Toyota pickup.

foobarian 3y ago

You know what else? I've been toying with the idea of getting a pickup truck because I often go to home improvement stores and do other light transport of common construction materials. I've been doing this with a hatchback Focus for ages now and it's been working OK, but I keep thinking all these pickup truck owners must know something I don't. Then I realized you can't fit an 8' 2x4 into an average pickup truck bed, where it fits perfectly fine into my Focus. WTF?

acdha 3y ago
Also Home Depot will rent a truck which is actually usable for roughly $20/hour, which just for the difference in fuel prices or insurance versus your Focus you could probably do almost weekly.
engineer_22 3y ago
I have a sedan but also need to move things around. I bought a 1,700 lb trailer at harbor freight for around $500 and a tow hitch, and now I can do almost as much as someone with a pickup. Bonus, I get great gas mileage when not towing a load and auto parts on this vehicle are inexpensive. I've moved my motorcycle, industrial embroidery machine, lumber, tools, etc. all very comfortably. It might be nice to have more payload, but right now I dont need it, and very few people do.
reaperman 3y ago
Pickup bed sizes are egregiously small nowadays. Trailers are amazing if you have storage space for them. However, most non-pickups (SUV’s etc) max out at towing 1,500 lbs and most sedans rather less. I know europeans get away with much higher towing ratings on their sedans than American equivalents. I never could figure out if this was conspiracy in underrating American sedans to force sales of pickups, slight engineering upgrades specific to EU markets, or the fact that you just drive slower in Europe so there’s less stress on components allowing greater trailer weight.
cityofdelusion 3y ago
You don’t need an 8ft bed to haul 8ft material. I have a small truck with a 4.5ft bed and I move 12 ft boards and 4x8 sheet just fine.
- foobarian 3y ago
  I realize people just lean things against the gate or leave the gate open, but I figure if I'm going to pony up mid 5 figures for a PICKUP truck things I pick up should at the very least fit no worse than in a little hatchback. :-)
3y ago

stcroixx 3y ago

Today's 1/2 ton has the same capabilities as a 3/4 ton from 20 years ago. Payload, HP, torque. I own both. Objectively more usable.

reaperman 3y ago
“Usable” is not just towing and hauling ratings. It’s also “Can I grab my fucking groceries out of the bed without climbing up a ladder or crawling into the bed?” I drove trucks for >10 years. I know the tradeoffs (and I mentioned towing capacity already!). I like pickup trucks! I’m a truck guy! “Objectively more usable” based on “payload/HP/torque” is missing a LOT of usability metrics and is not purely objective at all - the vast majority truck owners would get more utility from better ergonomics even if improving that cost up to 20% of their “payload/HP/torque”. What you mean is “objectively more powerful”, not “objectively more usable”. Is a semi truck or Caterpillar 797F “objectively more usable” than an F-150 because they have “more payload, HP, torque”? Of course a semi truck is not objectively more usable than an F-150 - only objectively more powerful. Many people need yesterday’s half-ton. Many people would benefit from lower ride height, not having to use a ladder to reach into the bed or climb into the seats. Being able to see children in front of the vehicle. But it’s not available.
- stcroixx 3y ago
  Sounds like you'd find cars more 'usable' and don't need/use trucks for the unique things they offer, which is towing and hauling things bigger than groceries.
  - reaperman 3y ago
    Please don’t tell me what I need. I’ve used trucks for those purposes plenty, and I still do. There exists a large, underserved market for pickup trucks which can haul furniture or summer yard project material or tow my sailboat, but also be a good daily driver. Furthermore - when is the last time you shoveled one ton of sand/gravel/stone out of a pickup bed? It was a hell of a lot easier with a lower bed that I could reach farther into with a standard transfer shovel.

theluketaylor 3y ago

> It’s past time to reform the CAFE standards to incentivize smaller trucks Even neutralizing the CAFE standards to stop incentivizing bigger trucks would be a huge victory. Reducing the fuel economy target for larger vehicle footprints is one of the worst perverse incentives ever created. Not only are huge trucks emitting more carbon, but pedestrians are at much great risk of serious injury and death from tall grills and poor visibility.

cityofdelusion 3y ago

The chicken tax is largely no longer relevant as the U.S. market hardly imports any vehicles from overseas. It’s simply cheaper to manufacture in the U.S. or the Mexican border these days.

reaperman 3y ago
Is it possible that people don’t import many vehicles because the chicken tax applies to all the most popular models? A 25% tax is likely suppressing imports. I find it noteworthy that our domestic automakers have in some cases entirely stopped producing any vehicles which aren't protected by the chicken tax (i.e. Ford). Edit: It is shockingly difficult to find statistics on imports as a % of US market size, if you want to filter out Canada+Mexico and also separate cars vs. trucks. Everything either lumps Canada+Mexico into "imports" or fails to differentiate cars (not subject to chicken tax) vs. trucks (subject to chicken tax).

unethical_ban 3y ago

A 2024 F150 is at least as big, is heavier, and tows more than a 1996 F250. The 2024 Ford Ranger is as big as least, as the 1996 F150, and with 30% more power depending on engine. Perverse incentives with CAFE standards, and crash test requirements, encourage this bloat of weight. I would love a 2.3L turbo 4 cylinder in my old truck.