5 ms·

They just overdid it with prices. They’d sell like hot cakes for under 40K.

olliej 3y ago
Why would “everyone” want a giant truck? Harder to park, we more fuel, carry fewer people for the same size+weight (if you need a bigger vehicle). The reason people aren’t buying pickups is because they’re vastly less convenient and more expensive to run than a regular car for the overwhelming majority of people.
- koolba 3y ago
  The dream scenario for those people is to have the SUV / sedan and the oversized dualie diesel truck. Sometimes you can only get half the dream so you have to pick which side you start from.
  - jbm 3y ago
    (Don't let them know about minivans, they already have an years-long waiting list where I live...)
- jimbob45 3y ago
  They’re a status symbol. It’s the same way that men don’t drink “girly” drinks. Men don’t drive Toyota Corollas. They drive trucks, minimum F-250, even if they never use the truck bed and actually work from home.
  - engineer_22 3y ago
    That's exactly what it is. Status. Most of the trucks sold to consumers will never see a construction site.
    - photonbeam 3y ago
      Hmm some EV manufacturers could start running ads to counter this perception. Make the trucks seem silly
      - engineer_22 3y ago
        Or the opposite, make EVs seem cool :) In my observation and conversations with people, electric vehicles are associated with the brainiacs and luxury brands. There's a large portion of people that identify with the "blue collar" - they don't perceive EVs as aligning with their values. Some taglines from truck manufacturers: "Built Ford tough" "Guts. Glory. Ram." We might suspect that people buy these vehicles as a reflection of their male virtues.
  - cityofdelusion 3y ago
    Disagree, the modern man of 2024 isn’t that masculine, especially in the big cities where you see giant trucks everywhere. A good amount of women and wifes drive these as well. I think the modern truck replaced the station wagon of old as the default family hauler with big sofa like seats. There really isn’t anything else similar to the old comfy wagon, other than the minivan which is seen as uncool and unstylish. Trucks have a cool factor, comfort factor and ride over the dilapidated infrastructure of the modern city with ease.
    - olliej 3y ago
      That’s quite a definition of masculine you’ve got there. Trucks don’t have a cool factor unless you already like trucks, normal cars - hell my decade old Prius C - handles “the dilapidated infrastructure of the modern city” with ease as well, and it can park easily as well! I’ve driven plenty of pickups (utes!), SUVs, vans, etc and honestly I find super squishy pickup suspension unpleasant, though in fairness that seems more a matter of US car design in general. A small hatchback is better by pretty much every metric in my experience: you can carry loads of stuff - obviously not as much as a pickup could but I’ve needed that much haulage maybe once or twice times in the last five years - but it can also park easily, costs less to run, and can hold as many people as the majority of trucks. I get that you like trucks, that’s really not a problem - it becomes a problem only if you’re going all in on BS like coal rolling and “masculine” driving - but you need to recognize that the overwhelming majority of the time a truck is not the right choice. As for SUVs as far as I can make out that’s just a combination of all the weaknesses of trucks and cars, with a side note pedestrian carnage.
- munificent 3y ago
  I don't like giant trucks either, but: > Harder to park This is simply not a concern for much of the US where density is low, parking lots are huge, and street parking is a rarity. You can live your entire life in swathes of the country and never once need to parallel park. > we more fuel It's not as big a difference as you might imagine. The widely criticized big Ford F-150 gets 21 MPG combined and a smaller Maverick gets 25. > carry fewer people for the same size+weight (if you need a bigger vehicle). Because of the previous two points, size+weight don't really directly matter much. If you've got the room for the size and the weight doesn't hurt the fuel economy much, then it's not much of a downside. In return, you get a vehicle that can fit more people and more stuff. I know it's fun to criticize truck owners as douchebag bros over-compensating, but, honestly, for many regions, the rationale behind owning them makes a lot of sense. If space and gas is cheap, a vehicle that gives you the status symbol and feel of a luxury sedan, the personal safety of a tank, the passenger capacity of a station wagon, and the storage capacity of a moving van. I think they're bad for the world because they make passengers safer at the expense of everyone else on the road. They are a safety arms race. But people tend to prioritize their own safety first. I would never own one because I don't want to spend that much money or be attached to the kind of cultural associations they have, but if I lived in the 'burbs or a rural area, I would be tempted. They are fun to drive and can do a lot.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    > This is simply not a concern for much of the US where density is low, parking lots are huge, and street parking is a rarity. You can live your entire life in swathes of the country and never once need to parallel park. What about garages in homes? I've seen plenty of photos of massive trucks parked outside or sticking out because they cannot fit inside. > It's not as big a difference as you might imagine. The widely criticized big Ford F-150 gets 21 MPG combined and a smaller Maverick gets 25. And a Ford Focus does 30-40 mpg depending on travel type. A Renault Clio does 47 mpg. Both can fit the same amount of people, just less cargo. > I think they're bad for the world because they make passengers safer at the expense of everyone else on the road. You're also forgetting the outsized impact on roads that everyone else pays for and the extra pollution everyone else is breathing.
reaperman 3y ago
It’s not just prices. I’m taller than 80% of Americans (6’0”) and I cannot effectively reach into the bed of a pickup truck. Used to be I could easily grab almost anything by reaching over the side or leaning on top of an opened tailgate. Now the trucks are so tall that the walls are higher than my armpit and the tailgate comes down to my nipples. I drove trucks a lot, split my time between city home with Mom and rural home in the middle of farms with Dad. Lots of backing up open hauling trailers (dirt, rocks, furniture, lumber, whatever) and boat trailers. Modern trucks are so much less usable than they were 25 years ago. They’re not just expensive, they’re impractical. Why would I pay more to get less? It’s past time to reform the CAFE standards to incentivize smaller trucks and slowly phase out the 25% “chicken tax” on imported trucks to let domestic manufacturers compete on design and quality. I’m also very uncomfortable driving around with the giant blind spot in front of the truck. This did not used to be a problem with my old pickup trucks. Now you need front cameras in addition to backup cameras just to not run over your own kids!? New trucks have some wonderful features but I don’t think theres any reason that smaller trucks couldn't have these too. These include higher towing capacity than in the past, 360 birds eye cameras, trailer back-up computer aid, apple carplay / android auto, excellent crash protection for passengers. Of those, the only two that size can affect are crash protection and towing capacity. I think you could still get most of the performance with a smaller truck that is more usable for 90% of the population.
- xyst 3y ago
  Because insecurity issues. Obviously.
- nurple 3y ago
  Agreed on the chicken tax. Man, I miss zooming around in my Toyota pickup.
- foobarian 3y ago
  You know what else? I've been toying with the idea of getting a pickup truck because I often go to home improvement stores and do other light transport of common construction materials. I've been doing this with a hatchback Focus for ages now and it's been working OK, but I keep thinking all these pickup truck owners must know something I don't. Then I realized you can't fit an 8' 2x4 into an average pickup truck bed, where it fits perfectly fine into my Focus. WTF?
rs999gti 3y ago
> They just overdid it with prices. I'd argue vehicle and home pricing increased to match the decreasing values of currency.

Why would “everyone” want a giant truck? Harder to park, we more fuel, carry fewer people for the same size+weight (if you need a bigger vehicle). The reason people aren’t buying pickups is because they’re vastly less convenient and more expensive to run than a regular car for the overwhelming majority of people.

koolba 3y ago
The dream scenario for those people is to have the SUV / sedan and the oversized dualie diesel truck. Sometimes you can only get half the dream so you have to pick which side you start from.
- jbm 3y ago
  (Don't let them know about minivans, they already have an years-long waiting list where I live...)
jimbob45 3y ago
They’re a status symbol. It’s the same way that men don’t drink “girly” drinks. Men don’t drive Toyota Corollas. They drive trucks, minimum F-250, even if they never use the truck bed and actually work from home.
- engineer_22 3y ago
  That's exactly what it is. Status. Most of the trucks sold to consumers will never see a construction site.
  - photonbeam 3y ago
    Hmm some EV manufacturers could start running ads to counter this perception. Make the trucks seem silly
    - engineer_22 3y ago
      Or the opposite, make EVs seem cool :) In my observation and conversations with people, electric vehicles are associated with the brainiacs and luxury brands. There's a large portion of people that identify with the "blue collar" - they don't perceive EVs as aligning with their values. Some taglines from truck manufacturers: "Built Ford tough" "Guts. Glory. Ram." We might suspect that people buy these vehicles as a reflection of their male virtues.
- cityofdelusion 3y ago
  Disagree, the modern man of 2024 isn’t that masculine, especially in the big cities where you see giant trucks everywhere. A good amount of women and wifes drive these as well. I think the modern truck replaced the station wagon of old as the default family hauler with big sofa like seats. There really isn’t anything else similar to the old comfy wagon, other than the minivan which is seen as uncool and unstylish. Trucks have a cool factor, comfort factor and ride over the dilapidated infrastructure of the modern city with ease.
  - olliej 3y ago
    That’s quite a definition of masculine you’ve got there. Trucks don’t have a cool factor unless you already like trucks, normal cars - hell my decade old Prius C - handles “the dilapidated infrastructure of the modern city” with ease as well, and it can park easily as well! I’ve driven plenty of pickups (utes!), SUVs, vans, etc and honestly I find super squishy pickup suspension unpleasant, though in fairness that seems more a matter of US car design in general. A small hatchback is better by pretty much every metric in my experience: you can carry loads of stuff - obviously not as much as a pickup could but I’ve needed that much haulage maybe once or twice times in the last five years - but it can also park easily, costs less to run, and can hold as many people as the majority of trucks. I get that you like trucks, that’s really not a problem - it becomes a problem only if you’re going all in on BS like coal rolling and “masculine” driving - but you need to recognize that the overwhelming majority of the time a truck is not the right choice. As for SUVs as far as I can make out that’s just a combination of all the weaknesses of trucks and cars, with a side note pedestrian carnage.
munificent 3y ago
I don't like giant trucks either, but: > Harder to park This is simply not a concern for much of the US where density is low, parking lots are huge, and street parking is a rarity. You can live your entire life in swathes of the country and never once need to parallel park. > we more fuel It's not as big a difference as you might imagine. The widely criticized big Ford F-150 gets 21 MPG combined and a smaller Maverick gets 25. > carry fewer people for the same size+weight (if you need a bigger vehicle). Because of the previous two points, size+weight don't really directly matter much. If you've got the room for the size and the weight doesn't hurt the fuel economy much, then it's not much of a downside. In return, you get a vehicle that can fit more people and more stuff. I know it's fun to criticize truck owners as douchebag bros over-compensating, but, honestly, for many regions, the rationale behind owning them makes a lot of sense. If space and gas is cheap, a vehicle that gives you the status symbol and feel of a luxury sedan, the personal safety of a tank, the passenger capacity of a station wagon, and the storage capacity of a moving van. I think they're bad for the world because they make passengers safer at the expense of everyone else on the road. They are a safety arms race. But people tend to prioritize their own safety first. I would never own one because I don't want to spend that much money or be attached to the kind of cultural associations they have, but if I lived in the 'burbs or a rural area, I would be tempted. They are fun to drive and can do a lot.
- sofixa 3y ago
  > This is simply not a concern for much of the US where density is low, parking lots are huge, and street parking is a rarity. You can live your entire life in swathes of the country and never once need to parallel park. What about garages in homes? I've seen plenty of photos of massive trucks parked outside or sticking out because they cannot fit inside. > It's not as big a difference as you might imagine. The widely criticized big Ford F-150 gets 21 MPG combined and a smaller Maverick gets 25. And a Ford Focus does 30-40 mpg depending on travel type. A Renault Clio does 47 mpg. Both can fit the same amount of people, just less cargo. > I think they're bad for the world because they make passengers safer at the expense of everyone else on the road. You're also forgetting the outsized impact on roads that everyone else pays for and the extra pollution everyone else is breathing.

reaperman 3y ago

It’s not just prices. I’m taller than 80% of Americans (6’0”) and I cannot effectively reach into the bed of a pickup truck. Used to be I could easily grab almost anything by reaching over the side or leaning on top of an opened tailgate. Now the trucks are so tall that the walls are higher than my armpit and the tailgate comes down to my nipples. I drove trucks a lot, split my time between city home with Mom and rural home in the middle of farms with Dad. Lots of backing up open hauling trailers (dirt, rocks, furniture, lumber, whatever) and boat trailers. Modern trucks are so much less usable than they were 25 years ago. They’re not just expensive, they’re impractical. Why would I pay more to get less? It’s past time to reform the CAFE standards to incentivize smaller trucks and slowly phase out the 25% “chicken tax” on imported trucks to let domestic manufacturers compete on design and quality. I’m also very uncomfortable driving around with the giant blind spot in front of the truck. This did not used to be a problem with my old pickup trucks. Now you need front cameras in addition to backup cameras just to not run over your own kids!? New trucks have some wonderful features but I don’t think theres any reason that smaller trucks couldn't have these too. These include higher towing capacity than in the past, 360 birds eye cameras, trailer back-up computer aid, apple carplay / android auto, excellent crash protection for passengers. Of those, the only two that size can affect are crash protection and towing capacity. I think you could still get most of the performance with a smaller truck that is more usable for 90% of the population.

xyst 3y ago
Because insecurity issues. Obviously.
nurple 3y ago
Agreed on the chicken tax. Man, I miss zooming around in my Toyota pickup.
foobarian 3y ago
You know what else? I've been toying with the idea of getting a pickup truck because I often go to home improvement stores and do other light transport of common construction materials. I've been doing this with a hatchback Focus for ages now and it's been working OK, but I keep thinking all these pickup truck owners must know something I don't. Then I realized you can't fit an 8' 2x4 into an average pickup truck bed, where it fits perfectly fine into my Focus. WTF?

rs999gti 3y ago

> They just overdid it with prices. I'd argue vehicle and home pricing increased to match the decreasing values of currency.