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HN has a serious problem if factual technology stories cannot exist here because some people don't like the truth. This should be advertised. The true price of

HN has a serious problem if factual technology stories cannot exist here because some people don't like the truth. This should be advertised. The true price of AI is people using computers to make decisions no decent person would. It's not a feature, it's a war crime.

bitcharmer 3y ago
This is not new and dang and the others are absolutely fine with posts getting gang-flagged in a matter of minutes. Just shows how impartial they are.
- jakupovic 3y ago
  Complicit is the word you're looking for.
- dang 3y ago
  I've written a lot about how we approach this. If you or anyone would like to know more, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39920732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39920732 in this thread and the links back from there.
spxneo 3y ago
I'm not sure why its such a shock to many to see the censorship on HN. This isn't a public square. We are privy to the whims of whatever political views of those that aligned/run/manage/stake in YC and their policies and values.
- oliwarner 3y ago
  I'm not shocked, I said it was a problem. I think it takes a tiny number of flags to nuke a post, independent of its upvotes, so strong negative community opinions are always quick to kill things. To restore it, mods have to step in, get involved, pick a "side". I think the flagging criteria needs overhauling so popular, flagged posts only get taken down at the behest of a moderator. But that does mean divisive topics stay up longer. For the nothing it's worth, I don't see this post as divisive. It's uncovering something ugly and partisan in nature, but a debate about whether or not an AI should be allowed to make these decisions needn't be partisan at all.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
Which war crime was committed? https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  Probably most of section e. But hamas fighters wear civilian clothes, so I'm not sure the rules even apply to them.
- oliwarner 3y ago
  At least a dozen counts of Article 8 2.b. Only allowing 20 seconds to verify that you are male (nothing else). Intentional night bombings to increase the chance of hitting your target, but ignoring that you're hitting a residential, killing a target's family and neighbours by association. Programming in a allowable "10% error rate", which looks more like a success rate when you factor in collateral. These aren't acceptable in war. If this is news, you need to read the article. There are, of course, many other concerns with Israeli conduct in and around Gaza. I agree that war is a dirty process, but trying to differentiate this from genocide is increasingly tough.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    There are 26 different acts under Article 8 2.b., which specifically?
    - oliwarner 3y ago
      Isn't one enough? Literally, point i, > Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities; It's clear the the wholesale bombing of communities is occurring. Whole families are being extinguished because they've been seen with a military target. The first five all seem to apply. It's hard to say exactly where the IDF the blame lies but a decision is being made at some level to wilfully ignore the suffering brought to millions of Gaza's inhabitants. It seems an AI has been left to make some of those decisions. It's not good enough. Edit: I'm not trying to be facetious or sardonic. I understand urban warfare makes adhering to international law incredibly hard for Israel, but stories like this show that they are not taking even the most reasonable steps to avoid civilian deaths, indeed a lot of their choices seem to rely on civilian suffering to ensure the clearing of Gaza. We barely trust an AI to take an exit without crashing into a divider, AI hallucinations paired with a poor remit in Gaza mean three generations get wiped out overnight.

bitcharmer 3y ago

This is not new and dang and the others are absolutely fine with posts getting gang-flagged in a matter of minutes. Just shows how impartial they are.

jakupovic 3y ago
Complicit is the word you're looking for.
dang 3y ago
I've written a lot about how we approach this. If you or anyone would like to know more, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39920732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39920732 in this thread and the links back from there.

spxneo 3y ago

I'm not sure why its such a shock to many to see the censorship on HN. This isn't a public square. We are privy to the whims of whatever political views of those that aligned/run/manage/stake in YC and their policies and values.

oliwarner 3y ago
I'm not shocked, I said it was a problem. I think it takes a tiny number of flags to nuke a post, independent of its upvotes, so strong negative community opinions are always quick to kill things. To restore it, mods have to step in, get involved, pick a "side". I think the flagging criteria needs overhauling so popular, flagged posts only get taken down at the behest of a moderator. But that does mean divisive topics stay up longer. For the nothing it's worth, I don't see this post as divisive. It's uncovering something ugly and partisan in nature, but a debate about whether or not an AI should be allowed to make these decisions needn't be partisan at all.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

Which war crime was committed? https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

Workaccount2 3y ago
Probably most of section e. But hamas fighters wear civilian clothes, so I'm not sure the rules even apply to them.
oliwarner 3y ago
At least a dozen counts of Article 8 2.b. Only allowing 20 seconds to verify that you are male (nothing else). Intentional night bombings to increase the chance of hitting your target, but ignoring that you're hitting a residential, killing a target's family and neighbours by association. Programming in a allowable "10% error rate", which looks more like a success rate when you factor in collateral. These aren't acceptable in war. If this is news, you need to read the article. There are, of course, many other concerns with Israeli conduct in and around Gaza. I agree that war is a dirty process, but trying to differentiate this from genocide is increasingly tough.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  There are 26 different acts under Article 8 2.b., which specifically?
  - oliwarner 3y ago
    Isn't one enough? Literally, point i, > Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities; It's clear the the wholesale bombing of communities is occurring. Whole families are being extinguished because they've been seen with a military target. The first five all seem to apply. It's hard to say exactly where the IDF the blame lies but a decision is being made at some level to wilfully ignore the suffering brought to millions of Gaza's inhabitants. It seems an AI has been left to make some of those decisions. It's not good enough. Edit: I'm not trying to be facetious or sardonic. I understand urban warfare makes adhering to international law incredibly hard for Israel, but stories like this show that they are not taking even the most reasonable steps to avoid civilian deaths, indeed a lot of their choices seem to rely on civilian suffering to ensure the clearing of Gaza. We barely trust an AI to take an exit without crashing into a divider, AI hallucinations paired with a poor remit in Gaza mean three generations get wiped out overnight.