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From my understanding it comes from a law passed that allows unlimited access by state intelligence services in China to any firms customer data. "The most c

by scanny 2y ago

From my understanding it comes from a law passed that allows unlimited access by state intelligence services in China to any firms customer data. "The most controversial sections of the law include Article 7 which potentially compels businesses registered or operating in the People's Republic of China to hand over information to Chinese intelligence agencies such as the MSS and to conceal the fact that they do so." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Provisions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law_of_t...

dumbo-octopus 2y ago
The same laws apply to American companies for American data requested by American agencies, is that better? And likely Norwegian too, but I don't know the specifics there.
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  Yes, it is better.
  - rany_ 2y ago
    Actually, the Chinese government holding my data is probably better than my own government holding and using it to incriminate me. I'm pretty sure China doesn't share the data they're collecting with their adversaries or even allies.
- sunaookami 2y ago
  >for American data If only! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
Spivak 2y ago
Which like yeah, but the US doesn't exactly come out smelling like a rose here. The whole EU-US transatlantic data transfer spat surrounding Facebook was because of PRISM which EU courts ruled gave the US the same level of access. The US even went so far to demand that US intelligence has domain over data no matter where it's stored, and supremacy when it conflicts with local laws https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/29/us-court-microsoft-personal-data-emails-irish-server https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/29/us-court-.... If you're in the US you could make an argument that it's fine because it's your own government -- which I don't really buy because China can't arrest you over here -- but to everyone else US tech and business should be just as toxic as China if that's the real motivation.
- wumeow 2y ago
  Appealed and overturned: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZU1RI/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZU1RI/ > which I don't really buy because China can't arrest you over here Not entirely true: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/china-police-state-outposts-00092913 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/china-police-state-...
  - aragonite 2y ago
    > Appealed and overturned Look up the CLOUD act passed in response to that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
    - wumeow 2y ago
      The CLOUD act has provisions that allow a company to challenge a warrant if the target is not a US person and obtaining the data would violate local laws.

by scanny 2y ago

dumbo-octopus 2y ago

The same laws apply to American companies for American data requested by American agencies, is that better? And likely Norwegian too, but I don't know the specifics there.

sickofparadox 2y ago
Yes, it is better.
- rany_ 2y ago
  Actually, the Chinese government holding my data is probably better than my own government holding and using it to incriminate me. I'm pretty sure China doesn't share the data they're collecting with their adversaries or even allies.
sunaookami 2y ago
>for American data If only! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

Spivak 2y ago

Which like yeah, but the US doesn't exactly come out smelling like a rose here. The whole EU-US transatlantic data transfer spat surrounding Facebook was because of PRISM which EU courts ruled gave the US the same level of access. The US even went so far to demand that US intelligence has domain over data no matter where it's stored, and supremacy when it conflicts with local laws https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/29/us-court-microsoft-personal-data-emails-irish-server https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/29/us-court-.... If you're in the US you could make an argument that it's fine because it's your own government -- which I don't really buy because China can't arrest you over here -- but to everyone else US tech and business should be just as toxic as China if that's the real motivation.

wumeow 2y ago
Appealed and overturned: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZU1RI/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZU1RI/ > which I don't really buy because China can't arrest you over here Not entirely true: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/china-police-state-outposts-00092913 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/china-police-state-...
- aragonite 2y ago
  > Appealed and overturned Look up the CLOUD act passed in response to that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
  - wumeow 2y ago
    The CLOUD act has provisions that allow a company to challenge a warrant if the target is not a US person and obtaining the data would violate local laws.