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I know many people won't read past the headline, but please try to. This is the second paragraph: "In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, ca
by smt88 3y ago
I know many people won't read past the headline, but please try to.
This is the second paragraph:
"In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, called Lavender, the intelligence sources claim that Israeli military officials permitted large numbers of Palestinian civilians to be killed, particularly during the early weeks and months of the conflict."
- yonisto 3y ago[flagged]
- KingMob 3y ago> What can one do when criminals have embedded them self in the civilian population? Why don't they get out and meet the police on the battle field? We wouldn't tolerate a SWAT team blowing up a hospital if the mafia had taken over the basement, I have no idea why you think this is acceptable. > It is much better than the carpet bombing used by other nations. It is exactly like the carpet bombing used by other nations.
- yonisto 3y ago> We wouldn't tolerate a SWAT team blowing up a hospital if the mafia had taken over the basement, I have no idea why you think this is acceptable. While I agree with comparing Hamas to the mafia, both are criminal organizations, Hamas is more than that. It has rockets, it mascaraed civilians and holds the ideology of genociding its enemy. None of that is applicable to the mafia. So if its people are hiding in an hospital and refuse to surrender there is no moral objection to blow up the hospital (Also, if you are referring to Shifa Hospital, Israel didn't blow it, they entered with SWAT teams and there were fierce fighting costing also Israeli soldiers lives) > It is exactly like the carpet bombing used by other nations. I'll link to Wikipedia to help you spot the differences [0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing
- koutetsu 3y agoI think that no matter your view on the mafia or Hamas, it still doesn't justify the amount of death and destruction that is being done in Gaza. No matter how you spin it or sugar coat itw killing, displacing and starving civilians, killing aid workers and journalists and destroying civilian infrastructure are war crimes. As for the Al-Shifa Hospital, Israel's SWAT is either incompetent or not a SWAT team at all judging by the length of the operation, 2 weeks, and the photos of the Hospital after they left.
- Workaccount2 3y agoBut Hamas is a cancer that constantly is trying to metastasize into Israel. Seriously, what is Israel supposed to do? Anything they label as "Do not attack" just becomes an attack vector for Hamas.
- koutetsu 3y agoI will try to answer that question. I think it's better to find the actual reason for what's happening rather than focus on the symptoms. Perhaps Israel could stop being an apartheid[0,1] and treat Palestinians equally. It could also stop imposing a blockade on Gaza[2] and allow it to blossom again and remove the need for supporting Hamas. It could as well allow Palestinians to exercise their right to return to where they or their parents lived [3]. It's easy to point the fingers at Hamas for the region's suffering but that is dishonest and completely omits the big role that Israel played in creating this and previous events. [0] https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/05/does-israels-treatment-palestinians-rise-level-apartheid https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/05/does-israels-treatment-p... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/apartheid https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/apartheid [2] https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/gaza-strip-humanitarian-impact-15-years-blockade-june-2022 https://www.unicef.org/mena/documents/gaza-strip-humanitaria... [3] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/01/27/gaza-two-rights-return https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/01/27/gaza-two-rights-return
- tzs 3y ago> I think it's better to find the actual reason for what's happening rather than focus on the symptoms You should take your own advice. You didn't cite any reasons. You just cited earlier symptoms.
- stefan_ 3y agoBecause this is war and not a SWAT police operation? If soldiers in the field have reason to believe the enemy is in a building and call in air support to bomb it, no part of that is a war crime. Even if someone later goes and discovers the people in that building were actually preschoolers; what matters is what the people in the field making the decisions knew at that moment.
- FireBeyond 3y agoYou realize you're actively advocating for a lack of critical thinking and investigation, to maintain plausible deniability? What could possibly go wrong?
- ThalesX 3y ago> what matters is what the people in the field making the decisions knew at that moment This is insane. What matters is the objective truth, whether or not dozens of preschoolers were killed due to an operational mistake.
- stefan_ 3y agoWar is horrible, what’s new? But few things in it qualify for war crimes.
- mmustapic 3y agoWould Israel blow an israeli hospital if Hamas took the basement?
- ngcazz 3y agoI mean... per the Hannibal doctrine they might just
- theoldlove 3y agoFor an explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#2023_Israel-Hamas_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#2023_Israel...
- yonisto 3y agoIf they would take just the basement that would be unnecessary, but they took everything up to the roof.
- smt88 3y agoThe whole point of this article (and much of what we've learned in the last few months) is that Israel is clearly not just targeting areas with suspected Hamas activity. They're using indiscriminate weapons (so not targeting at all!), hitting known UN and humanitarian sites, and killing so ruthlessly that they killed Israeli hostages that made the mistake of being living humans in front of IDF soldiers.
- hightrix 3y agoNot only are they indescriminately killing, they are purposefully targeting and murdering aid workers that coordinated WITH THE IDF before entering the area. "…were traveling in a convoy that had been coordinated with the Israel Defense Forces and was following an IDF-approved route. The vehicles had GPS trackers and SOS beacons broadcasting their positions" https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/idf-strike-on-gaza-aid-convoy-workers-what-happened/ar-BB1l0lSH https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/idf-strike-on-gaza-aid-...
- kmac_ 3y agoDo you justify killing civilians? That's disgusting.
- scotty79 3y agoNeither Isrealis nor Hamas believe it's their duty to prevent civilian Palestinian deaths in this conflict. At this point anyone that can do anything to improve the situation are the civilians themselves by social distancing from Hamas associates by at least the typical blast radius. Athough I don't imagine this would be very effective as well.
- cellwebb 3y agoawful take
- random9749832 3y ago>This is no different than chemotherapy Say that to the parents of the aid workers whose vehicle was used as a bullseye: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68711282 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68711282
- yonisto 3y ago[flagged]
- random9749832 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gotoeleven 3y ago[flagged]
- smt88 3y agoIt sounds like you think they should have autonomy and a democratic state, which most of the world also agrees with.
- nikkwong 3y ago"Democratic" is pushing it a tad too far—none of the Islamic world follows a rule of law that would be something akin to a democracy; they're monarchies, theocracies, or in many cases autocracies. The only actual democracy in the middle east is—well, Israel.
- Qem 3y ago> The only actual democracy in the middle east is—well, Israel. An apartheid is no democracy. Calling an apartheid regime 'democracy' debases the concept of democracy, and gives it bad reputation.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- smt88 3y agoSo you believe that Muslims and/or Arabs are incapable of democracy? Also, Israel is absolutely not a democracy. Gazans were/are ultimately subject to Israeli law and could not vote in Israel's elections.
- nikkwong 3y agoIncapable is a strong word—but much (if not most) of the Muslim world advocates for Sharia law which is essentially the opposite of a democracy. When it's practiced in it's truest form it's the most repressive system of laws against women in the modern world. As the world becomes more modern and democratic principles become more highly prized, I think we see some glimmers of hope in the muslim world as parts of the population begin to value more democratic principles. But they have to do this in the context of the theocratic states in which they live in where these values were never first class citizens—so I think that's why we haven't seen much progress on these fronts in that part of the world. I agree with you that there's a double standard in regards to the application of the law—I'm not privy on why Palestinians are subject to Israel's laws, and I wouldn't charitably say it's for reasons that are morally sound. I do think that allowing Palestinian's to vote in Israel's parliamentary elections is a non-starter for obvious reasons.
- tootie 3y agoYeah the AI is probably the most ethical part of this operation. The human leadership decided that no amount of collateral damage was too much.
- BLKNSLVR 3y agoThe AI is as ethical as the humans training it.
- ofiryanai 3y agoThey permitted larger numbers of civilians being killed in the pursuit of terrorist barbarics who raped and murdered and dragged babies with their mothers into underground dungeons, and praised themselves for that while hiding between civilians.
- smt88 3y agoWhy did the civilians deserve to die because of what the terrorists did? If this is about the hostages, why hasn't Israel agreed to more ceasefires to save them?
- afroboy 3y agoYou do realize this problem didn't start on October 7?
- GordonS 3y agoPlease stop spreading nonsensical, thoroughly debunked claims such as rape.
- jerpint 3y agoRapes have been officially recognized as having happened by the UN, i don’t see how that is hard to believe given Hamas filmed most of their atrocities on GoPros. Oct 7 was a brutal terror campaign regardless of your position on the conflict, denying that is absurd > Following a mission lasting just over two weeks, the UN team found 'reasonable grounds to believe' that 'rape and gang rape' took place during the attack on October 7, 2023, while acknowledging the limitations of its own investigation https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/07/un-report-confirms-sexual-violence-during-hamas-attack-on-israel_6595811_4.html#:~:text=Following%20a%20mission%20lasting%20just,limitations%20of%20its%20own%20investigation https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/07/u....
- GordonS 3y agoRead the report - there is zero evidence of rape that hasn't been thoroughly debunked. That "reasonable grounds" line was apparently added to placate Israel by the report's author (who has a history with Israel). Even the NYT now admits (albeit quietly) that their "expose" contains no evidence. And, as I'm sure you know, there are exactly zero videos showing rape. Quite frankly, I find it incredible that some people still believe the atrocity propaganda, even when it's so obvious and of such poor quality.
- huytersd 3y agoWell yeah, they have an “unspoken” 10 to 1 rule about taking 10 Palestinian lives for each Israeli loss.
- slim 3y agoin the article they say it's explicit and it's 20 to 1 and goes to 100 to 1 for some targets. which makes it obvious it's not a rule but an order of magnitude to estimate the importance of a target. you know like when we use the Fibonacci suite as a measure for the difficulty of a backlog item during the planning game