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> like Google India or Gojek Engineering in Bangalore, Jakarta, etc can pay German or French level dev salaries Not even close. Indian devs at top companies ea

> like Google India or Gojek Engineering in Bangalore, Jakarta, etc can pay German or French level dev salaries Not even close. Indian devs at top companies earn way more then European devs at local non-top-tech companies. >unless by "middle class" your peers meant the professional class in China (the kind that can afford to splurge on a new iPhone every year, buy a Xiaomi SU7, and send their kids to do a bachelors degree at UCB, UCLA, or UIUC) How many Chinese families (percentual speaking) can actually afford that?

alephnerd 3y ago
Depends on the company you are working for in India. At a product company like Ola or a top MNC like Google you are earning way above most Europeans excluding Netherlands, Switzerland, and maybe London, but if I had to estimate, Product+MNC companies only make up like 30-40% of the ecosystem in India today. If you're working for a mass recruiter your mid-career salary will top off around the $8-20k range, which is Eastern European level, but lower than France and Germany (where it's around the $40-60k range). Also, there are regional variations in salaries in India as well. You're more likely to earn much higher working in an established tech or MNC hub like BLR, HYD, NCR, or PN than in Indore, Kolkata, Chennai, or Ahmedabad, where the tech scene skews towards outsourced contracting. Government dev salaries are lowish (depending on the Ministry and whether it's central or state), but the perks are solid. I'd probably say the split is 35-45-20 Product-WITCH-Govt. Edit: You said "Top". Fair enough. Yea, the salaries at top employers like Google India or Flipkart are extremely competitive by European standards and are comparable to those in Mainland China, Israel, and Canada.
- Wytwwww 3y ago
  > $8-20k range, which is Eastern European level Are you talking about software and tech in general? Because that's several times lower than the average. In every single East European country in the EU, the average ~~monthly~~ [edit: yearly] wage (I'm talking about the whole population) is at least 18-20k and you certainly can't find any actual developers for anything even close to that.
  - locusofself 3y ago
    Are you saying that average tech pay in Eastern Europe is up to 240k euros per year? that sounds about 4x too high.
    - Wytwwww 3y ago
      No, sorry that was a typo, of course it's yearly (the $20k is not for tech pay but average wage for the entire population, tech would be 1.5-3x more)
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Maybe in Poland or Czechia, but in Romania or Bulgaria those are far from average.
        alephnerd 3y ago
        Even in Poland the median household disposable income (the metric I am using for China) comes out to around $600/mo [0] and is comparable to Thailand. Polish boosterism is almost as annoying as Indian boosterism tbh - both seem to come from a place of insecurity and heavily play up some positives while ignoring the negatives. If you listen to Polish or Indian nationalists, you'd think Poland or India are major superpowers already and have been for decades. Is this a side effect of PiS's hypernationalist media in the 2010s? Or is this some weird alt-right Catholic White Nationalism fetish? [0] - https://stat.gov.pl/files/gfx/portalinformacyjny/pl/defaultaktualnosci/5486/3/22/1/sytuacja_gospodarstw_domowych_w_2022_r._w_swietle_wynikow_badania_budzetow_gospodarstw_domowych.docx https://stat.gov.pl/files/gfx/portalinformacyjny/pl/defaulta...
        Wytwwww 3y ago
        > both seem to come from a place of insecurity and heavily play up some positives while ignoring the negatives > Or is this some weird alt-right Catholic White Nationalism fetish? I see a lot of projection going on here. No, you were not talking about average disposable income you were talking about salaries for workers in tech. This is what you wrote: > if you're working for a mass recruiter your mid-career salary will top off around the $8-20k range, which is Eastern European level, but lower than France and Germany (where it's around the $40-60k range). The average salary for all employes in all sector in Poland is > $24k. Are you implying that you can hire tech workers or even software engineers for considerably less than the national average? Seems highly far fetched. Was this an unintentional mistake or are you doing it on purpose. Considering the totally uncalled for diatribe about Polish(I'm neither Polish nor have anything to do with it for that matter) nationalism unfortunately it's probably the second?

alephnerd 3y ago

Depends on the company you are working for in India. At a product company like Ola or a top MNC like Google you are earning way above most Europeans excluding Netherlands, Switzerland, and maybe London, but if I had to estimate, Product+MNC companies only make up like 30-40% of the ecosystem in India today. If you're working for a mass recruiter your mid-career salary will top off around the $8-20k range, which is Eastern European level, but lower than France and Germany (where it's around the $40-60k range). Also, there are regional variations in salaries in India as well. You're more likely to earn much higher working in an established tech or MNC hub like BLR, HYD, NCR, or PN than in Indore, Kolkata, Chennai, or Ahmedabad, where the tech scene skews towards outsourced contracting. Government dev salaries are lowish (depending on the Ministry and whether it's central or state), but the perks are solid. I'd probably say the split is 35-45-20 Product-WITCH-Govt. Edit: You said "Top". Fair enough. Yea, the salaries at top employers like Google India or Flipkart are extremely competitive by European standards and are comparable to those in Mainland China, Israel, and Canada.

Wytwwww 3y ago
> $8-20k range, which is Eastern European level Are you talking about software and tech in general? Because that's several times lower than the average. In every single East European country in the EU, the average ~~monthly~~ [edit: yearly] wage (I'm talking about the whole population) is at least 18-20k and you certainly can't find any actual developers for anything even close to that.
- locusofself 3y ago
  Are you saying that average tech pay in Eastern Europe is up to 240k euros per year? that sounds about 4x too high.
  - Wytwwww 3y ago
    No, sorry that was a typo, of course it's yearly (the $20k is not for tech pay but average wage for the entire population, tech would be 1.5-3x more)
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      Maybe in Poland or Czechia, but in Romania or Bulgaria those are far from average.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Even in Poland the median household disposable income (the metric I am using for China) comes out to around $600/mo [0] and is comparable to Thailand. Polish boosterism is almost as annoying as Indian boosterism tbh - both seem to come from a place of insecurity and heavily play up some positives while ignoring the negatives. If you listen to Polish or Indian nationalists, you'd think Poland or India are major superpowers already and have been for decades. Is this a side effect of PiS's hypernationalist media in the 2010s? Or is this some weird alt-right Catholic White Nationalism fetish? [0] - https://stat.gov.pl/files/gfx/portalinformacyjny/pl/defaultaktualnosci/5486/3/22/1/sytuacja_gospodarstw_domowych_w_2022_r._w_swietle_wynikow_badania_budzetow_gospodarstw_domowych.docx https://stat.gov.pl/files/gfx/portalinformacyjny/pl/defaulta...
        Wytwwww 3y ago
        > both seem to come from a place of insecurity and heavily play up some positives while ignoring the negatives > Or is this some weird alt-right Catholic White Nationalism fetish? I see a lot of projection going on here. No, you were not talking about average disposable income you were talking about salaries for workers in tech. This is what you wrote: > if you're working for a mass recruiter your mid-career salary will top off around the $8-20k range, which is Eastern European level, but lower than France and Germany (where it's around the $40-60k range). The average salary for all employes in all sector in Poland is > $24k. Are you implying that you can hire tech workers or even software engineers for considerably less than the national average? Seems highly far fetched. Was this an unintentional mistake or are you doing it on purpose. Considering the totally uncalled for diatribe about Polish(I'm neither Polish nor have anything to do with it for that matter) nationalism unfortunately it's probably the second?