4 ms·

At this point, considering the apparent ease with which a project that is used pretty much everywhere was taken over, that seems like a reasonable position.

by irdc 3y ago

arp242 3y ago
I can walk out on the street and stab someone to death if I wanted to. This is surprisingly easy. Just because something is relatively easy to pull off doesn't mean it happens a lot. It's also not that easy to pull off because you need to have a project with relatively few eyes and a place to hide it. In this case: binary tests. But most projects don't have those. There is no evidence for any of this, including that it's a nation-state actor. There's also a case to be made that it's NOT a nation-state actor as nation states use Linux and want a secure Linux. The NSA and such have somewhat conflicting interests here. We just don't know. It's likely we will never know. All of this is starting to resemble the spy paranoia of the first world war. A few spies got caught and suddenly everyone was now a suspected German spy (including a general, if I recall correctly, who was detained for a while because he couldn't answer a question about baseball or some such). I suspect that very soon people will start demanding maintainers put some of their blood in a Petri dish to be tested with a hot needle. Just in case.
- acdha 3y ago
  > There's also a case to be made that it's NOT a nation-state actor as nation states use Linux and want a secure Linux. The NSA and such have somewhat conflicting interests here. We just don't know. I agree that we do not know that it’s a nation-state but this point seems to work in the opposite direction: this attack was very carefully constructed so only someone with a particular key pair could exploit it. That’s reminiscent of what the NSA did with the Dual EC constants, and they were confident enough about that to push it into the FIPS requirements for federal IT.
- mannykannot 3y ago
  Motive, opportunity, means - and consequences: it is primarily the absence of a motive, and secondarily the likelihood of consequences, that keeps the prevalence of street stabbings way lower that if means and opportunity were the only factors. The argument against nation-states being involved has some problems: a state can avoid becoming victim to its own work, while its own restraint would not prevent developments elsewhere.
- lolc 3y ago
  You're commenting under a link where commits to the xz-decoder are discussed. Some level of paranoia is warranted. The binary files look like a sideshow in comparison. Maybe we're lucky the attacker was tempted to hide something in there.

At this point, considering the apparent ease with which a project that is used pretty much everywhere was taken over, that seems like a reasonable position.

by irdc 3y ago

At this point, considering the apparent ease with which a project that is used pretty much everywhere was taken over, that seems like a reasonable position.

arp242 3y ago

I can walk out on the street and stab someone to death if I wanted to. This is surprisingly easy. Just because something is relatively easy to pull off doesn't mean it happens a lot. It's also not that easy to pull off because you need to have a project with relatively few eyes and a place to hide it. In this case: binary tests. But most projects don't have those. There is no evidence for any of this, including that it's a nation-state actor. There's also a case to be made that it's NOT a nation-state actor as nation states use Linux and want a secure Linux. The NSA and such have somewhat conflicting interests here. We just don't know. It's likely we will never know. All of this is starting to resemble the spy paranoia of the first world war. A few spies got caught and suddenly everyone was now a suspected German spy (including a general, if I recall correctly, who was detained for a while because he couldn't answer a question about baseball or some such). I suspect that very soon people will start demanding maintainers put some of their blood in a Petri dish to be tested with a hot needle. Just in case.

acdha 3y ago
> There's also a case to be made that it's NOT a nation-state actor as nation states use Linux and want a secure Linux. The NSA and such have somewhat conflicting interests here. We just don't know. I agree that we do not know that it’s a nation-state but this point seems to work in the opposite direction: this attack was very carefully constructed so only someone with a particular key pair could exploit it. That’s reminiscent of what the NSA did with the Dual EC constants, and they were confident enough about that to push it into the FIPS requirements for federal IT.
mannykannot 3y ago
Motive, opportunity, means - and consequences: it is primarily the absence of a motive, and secondarily the likelihood of consequences, that keeps the prevalence of street stabbings way lower that if means and opportunity were the only factors. The argument against nation-states being involved has some problems: a state can avoid becoming victim to its own work, while its own restraint would not prevent developments elsewhere.
lolc 3y ago
You're commenting under a link where commits to the xz-decoder are discussed. Some level of paranoia is warranted. The binary files look like a sideshow in comparison. Maybe we're lucky the attacker was tempted to hide something in there.