3 ms·

Large appliances can also be monitored via energy use back at the panel with a device like Sense: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/sense/ https://www.

Large appliances can also be monitored via energy use back at the panel with a device like Sense: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/sense/ https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/sense/ This can detect an inductive load like an AC/fridge/freezer compressor or washing machine motor. Something small and purely resistive like a rice cooker might be more challenging, but certainly a Sense does get you a long way.

ssl-3 3y ago
That's a cromulent method. It does involve buying single-task hardware, but it's tidy. I'd expect that it would work the same for either resistive or inductive loads -- after all, AC current on a wire is AC current on a wire, however it came to be present.
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  Sort of. Inductive loads tend to have a much more distinct "signature" in terms of how they draw current— both the obvious business of causing idealized current lag [1] but also the choppiness of how the magnets energize and de-energize as it spins. My understanding of Sense is that it measures the top-level current consumption somewhat blindly and then uses the inductive monitoring and other inference to attribute that consumption to different known devices— like oh here's 4kW of resistive heating going on, I can tell whether that's your dryer or your hot tub based on whether I see the drum or circulation pump running. Whereas if it can't find an inductor then it will basically just assume it's your kettle, toaster, or a fanless space heater, with more emphasis on the device doing unique things as it starts up, see [2]. [1]: https://eng.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Electrical_Engineering/Electronics/AC_Electrical_Circuit_Analysis%3A_A_Practical_Approach_(Fiore)/07%3A_AC_Power/7.2%3A_Power_Waveforms https://eng.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Electrical_Engineerin... [2]: https://blog.sense.com/articles/how-does-sense-detect-my-devices/ https://blog.sense.com/articles/how-does-sense-detect-my-dev...
  - ssl-3 3y ago
    Thanks. I did read through your provided links, and I don't disagree with them. The current transformers used by Sense are inductive by their very nature, but that property does not suggest preferential detection of specifically inductive loads. It can detect inductive loads as being unique, but it can also detect largely-resistive loads as being unique -- as well as many other things that present a particular signature. The toaster presented in the blog is an excellent example of a largely-resistive thing that still behaves in unique ways.
alright2565 3y ago
The Sense is way too expensive for the very limited capabilities it has. You get to pay extra for the machine-learning to mis-interpret your appliances! The Emporia Vue is half the price and has a clamp for each circuit. In this case though, the wall plug monitoring is definitely the right solution.
- ssl-3 3y ago
  Can the Vue ever automatically differentiate between a rice cooker and a toaster that are plugged into the same branch circuit? Sense, theoretically, can.
  - alright2565 3y ago
    sure, just write a homeassistant integration. you have only 4 cases to handle: - toaster oven on - rice cooker on - both on - both off I would be extremely surprised if the sense was able to detect a rice cooker accurately.

ssl-3 3y ago

That's a cromulent method. It does involve buying single-task hardware, but it's tidy. I'd expect that it would work the same for either resistive or inductive loads -- after all, AC current on a wire is AC current on a wire, however it came to be present.

mikepurvis 3y ago
Sort of. Inductive loads tend to have a much more distinct "signature" in terms of how they draw current— both the obvious business of causing idealized current lag [1] but also the choppiness of how the magnets energize and de-energize as it spins. My understanding of Sense is that it measures the top-level current consumption somewhat blindly and then uses the inductive monitoring and other inference to attribute that consumption to different known devices— like oh here's 4kW of resistive heating going on, I can tell whether that's your dryer or your hot tub based on whether I see the drum or circulation pump running. Whereas if it can't find an inductor then it will basically just assume it's your kettle, toaster, or a fanless space heater, with more emphasis on the device doing unique things as it starts up, see [2]. [1]: https://eng.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Electrical_Engineering/Electronics/AC_Electrical_Circuit_Analysis%3A_A_Practical_Approach_(Fiore)/07%3A_AC_Power/7.2%3A_Power_Waveforms https://eng.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Electrical_Engineerin... [2]: https://blog.sense.com/articles/how-does-sense-detect-my-devices/ https://blog.sense.com/articles/how-does-sense-detect-my-dev...
- ssl-3 3y ago
  Thanks. I did read through your provided links, and I don't disagree with them. The current transformers used by Sense are inductive by their very nature, but that property does not suggest preferential detection of specifically inductive loads. It can detect inductive loads as being unique, but it can also detect largely-resistive loads as being unique -- as well as many other things that present a particular signature. The toaster presented in the blog is an excellent example of a largely-resistive thing that still behaves in unique ways.

alright2565 3y ago

The Sense is way too expensive for the very limited capabilities it has. You get to pay extra for the machine-learning to mis-interpret your appliances! The Emporia Vue is half the price and has a clamp for each circuit. In this case though, the wall plug monitoring is definitely the right solution.

ssl-3 3y ago
Can the Vue ever automatically differentiate between a rice cooker and a toaster that are plugged into the same branch circuit? Sense, theoretically, can.
- alright2565 3y ago
  sure, just write a homeassistant integration. you have only 4 cases to handle: - toaster oven on - rice cooker on - both on - both off I would be extremely surprised if the sense was able to detect a rice cooker accurately.