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I would love to hear any explanation for why they should get a penny of taxpayer money after spending >$150B in stock buybacks. They spent their money on enrich

I would love to hear any explanation for why they should get a penny of taxpayer money after spending >$150B in stock buybacks. They spent their money on enriching the rich.

zer00eyz 3y ago
Chip made here is a matter of national security. Full stop. I said I would like a better tax policy (that would address your issue) but that doesn't change the need. You may not like it, I am not fond of it, but we are now Rome. THE US's military might is the same as Romes, the legion (the navy being the 2nd largest Air Force on the globe says it all). You know what happened when the legion got weak? The barbarians came in and ate Rome. It wasnt fast, and it wasnt pretty.
- FactKnower69 3y ago
  this is such a hysterical post dude. comparing america to the collapsing western roman empire, patriotically (Note: I'm a left leaning liberal)
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >Chip made here is a matter of national security. Chips made in Taiwan is a matter of national security, or the lack thereof. Chips made literally anywhere else, including China, are fine; China might blow up Taiwan, but Taiwan can't reciprocate and the west will not fight China.[1] I say that as someone who likes Intel, wants to see Made in USA come back, and abhors Chinese geopolitical ambitions. The bottom line that shall not be stated is nobody wants to deal with Taiwan and everyone is happy dealing with China. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves-off-amd-and-china-critics-to-keep-exclusive-export-license-to-huawei-intel-sells-90-of-cpus-used-in-the-companys-laptops https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves... ------ >THE US's military might is the same as Romes The US military can't do a single thing about a bunch of misguided cavemen lobbing missiles into and stealing freighters from the neighbouring shipping lanes. For that matter, the US military hasn't won a war since WW2. The numbers might look impressive, but in practice it's vapid. Obama even went on record that the US is retiring from policing the world. Note: I say this as an American.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    >>> The bottom line that shall not be stated is nobody wants to deal with Taiwan and everyone is happy dealing with China. What? No one wants to deal with china. Everyone is moving their manufacturing OUT as fast as they can. China in its desperate throws to remain relevant in the face of a massive population decline is desperate (the same way Russia is in the face of their population decline)... No one wanted to sell the tech to china to make modern chips before all the wars and saber rattling of belt and road (facing). And china lacks the will, talent and now access to catch up. ASee the Ukraine war and Russia. To see what "no chips" looks like. modern optics on tanks are now outside what they can do, never mind glass cockpits of 4th and 5th gen fighters, never mind gps and smart mentions, never mind drones... >> Chips made literally anywhere else, including China, are fine; China might blow up Taiwan, but Taiwan can't reciprocate and the west will not fight China.[1] China isnt stupid, they keep pouring money into missles in the hopes of being able to do exactly what you're saying. The problem is that without sea lanes then china runs out of oil, steel and food inside 6 months. If you pay attention to recent conflicts you will note that the patriot missile system has been shooting down the best Russia has to offer. You will note that the anti missile ships off the coast of Yemen are using the same system and missles. That the brits and French are in on the game. You will note that all the intel on chinas missile force (farce) has leaked everywhere... China wont invade shit. >>> [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves... This is a holdover deal on the chip ban selling chips to china cause they cant make a thing. You aren't making a strong point with this.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      >What? No one wants to deal with china. And yet everyone keeps dealing with China, because money talks and China has lots of it. Whether it's Intel and Nvidia exporting their latest tech to China, Apple manufacturing iPhones in China, BYD poised to crowd out the car industry (sans America), or having our cheapass blue jeans produced in the finest sweatshops, everyone wants to deal with China. No one wants to deal with the dynamite basket that is Taiwan. Initiatives like CHIPS are so we can eventually leave Taiwan out to dry, not because we want to overcome China. >No one wanted to sell the tech to china to make modern chips before all the wars and saber rattling of belt and road (facing). Except everyone wanted to sell to China because the monies involved was ludicrous and that is still the case today. >And china lacks the will, talent and now access to catch up. China has practical implementations of 7nm process and are shipping product today from what I understand. Pedantically, China is ahead of Intel and thus the US right now. This is something the west should be terrified of, now is not the time for coping or denialism. Let alone the implied sentiments of "Ha ha, Intel's losing big bucks! Losers!" in threads like this which are the epitome of counterproductivity if the goal really is overcoming China instead of just ridding ourselves of Taiwan. >See the Ukraine war and Russia. To see what "no chips" looks like. modern optics on tanks are now outside what they can do, never mind glass cockpits of 4th and 5th gen fighters, never mind gps and smart mentions, never mind drones... And yet Ukraine still hasn't won. With western high tech. Mind you, I want Russia to lose and lose hard because I hate the idea of warmongering validated as a means of diplomacy in the 21st century, but it is what it is. It also goes without saying you don't need high tech to kill people and destroy entire landscapes. >China isnt stupid, they keep pouring money into missles in the hopes of being able to do exactly what you're saying. Yes? I said China might blow up Taiwan and they most likely eventually will. China couldn't care less about TSMC or really anyone and anything that exists on that island, they just want the island and they will invade if or when the geopolitical winds blow appropriately for them. >If you pay attention to recent conflicts you will note that the patriot missile system has been shooting down the best Russia has to offer. You will note that the anti missile ships off the coast of Yemen are using the same system and missles. That the brits and French are in on the game. Congratulations, we've managed to do the same thing as the misguided cavemen but did so behind schedule and over budget. Truly an achievement for the Nobel Peace Prize. Yeah no.
mike_hearn 3y ago
They probably also spend the money on pay rises. Does that also bother you? When investors buy shares, they are in effect giving money to the company. It might be indirect if they purchase from some other holder of the share, but ultimately those shares were issued by the company and the initial purchasers gave the company that money. Investors do this because they want a return. Either dividends or price growth or both. If there's no prospects for growth they will pull out their money and this will seriously hurt Intel, creating a downward spiral. The US Government is subsidizing Intel because they don't want it to die. An Intel that has crushed its investors will end up on permanent subsidy life support because nobody will trust it with their money again. An Intel that uses some of those subsidies to keep investors on-side will retain their trust, and give it a pathway off government support and back onto raising funds from the markets. So whilst this sort of thing makes the left very unhappy (often because they don't think of themselves as holding equities even when they do via pensions/insurance funds), it does make sense over the long run. Investors aren't an ATM that can just be raided at will. They're a coalition that can break.
paulmd 3y ago
Because the money isn’t a bailout, it’s to incentivize intel to do a financially suboptimal thing that the US finds strategically desirable. If building and running the fab in Arizona versus Ireland is going to cost intel $8b more, the options are do nothing and don’t get the fab, or pay the difference. Even if they are doing stock buybacks it doesn’t mean you can force intel’s shareholders to take a $8b loss without compensation - that’s a clear takings clause violation.

I would love to hear any explanation for why they should get a penny of taxpayer money after spending >$150B in stock buybacks. They spent their money on enriching the rich.

zer00eyz 3y ago

Chip made here is a matter of national security. Full stop. I said I would like a better tax policy (that would address your issue) but that doesn't change the need. You may not like it, I am not fond of it, but we are now Rome. THE US's military might is the same as Romes, the legion (the navy being the 2nd largest Air Force on the globe says it all). You know what happened when the legion got weak? The barbarians came in and ate Rome. It wasnt fast, and it wasnt pretty.

FactKnower69 3y ago
this is such a hysterical post dude. comparing america to the collapsing western roman empire, patriotically (Note: I'm a left leaning liberal)
Dalewyn 3y ago
>Chip made here is a matter of national security. Chips made in Taiwan is a matter of national security, or the lack thereof. Chips made literally anywhere else, including China, are fine; China might blow up Taiwan, but Taiwan can't reciprocate and the west will not fight China.[1] I say that as someone who likes Intel, wants to see Made in USA come back, and abhors Chinese geopolitical ambitions. The bottom line that shall not be stated is nobody wants to deal with Taiwan and everyone is happy dealing with China. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves-off-amd-and-china-critics-to-keep-exclusive-export-license-to-huawei-intel-sells-90-of-cpus-used-in-the-companys-laptops https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves... ------ >THE US's military might is the same as Romes The US military can't do a single thing about a bunch of misguided cavemen lobbing missiles into and stealing freighters from the neighbouring shipping lanes. For that matter, the US military hasn't won a war since WW2. The numbers might look impressive, but in practice it's vapid. Obama even went on record that the US is retiring from policing the world. Note: I say this as an American.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  >>> The bottom line that shall not be stated is nobody wants to deal with Taiwan and everyone is happy dealing with China. What? No one wants to deal with china. Everyone is moving their manufacturing OUT as fast as they can. China in its desperate throws to remain relevant in the face of a massive population decline is desperate (the same way Russia is in the face of their population decline)... No one wanted to sell the tech to china to make modern chips before all the wars and saber rattling of belt and road (facing). And china lacks the will, talent and now access to catch up. ASee the Ukraine war and Russia. To see what "no chips" looks like. modern optics on tanks are now outside what they can do, never mind glass cockpits of 4th and 5th gen fighters, never mind gps and smart mentions, never mind drones... >> Chips made literally anywhere else, including China, are fine; China might blow up Taiwan, but Taiwan can't reciprocate and the west will not fight China.[1] China isnt stupid, they keep pouring money into missles in the hopes of being able to do exactly what you're saying. The problem is that without sea lanes then china runs out of oil, steel and food inside 6 months. If you pay attention to recent conflicts you will note that the patriot missile system has been shooting down the best Russia has to offer. You will note that the anti missile ships off the coast of Yemen are using the same system and missles. That the brits and French are in on the game. You will note that all the intel on chinas missile force (farce) has leaked everywhere... China wont invade shit. >>> [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-staves... This is a holdover deal on the chip ban selling chips to china cause they cant make a thing. You aren't making a strong point with this.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >What? No one wants to deal with china. And yet everyone keeps dealing with China, because money talks and China has lots of it. Whether it's Intel and Nvidia exporting their latest tech to China, Apple manufacturing iPhones in China, BYD poised to crowd out the car industry (sans America), or having our cheapass blue jeans produced in the finest sweatshops, everyone wants to deal with China. No one wants to deal with the dynamite basket that is Taiwan. Initiatives like CHIPS are so we can eventually leave Taiwan out to dry, not because we want to overcome China. >No one wanted to sell the tech to china to make modern chips before all the wars and saber rattling of belt and road (facing). Except everyone wanted to sell to China because the monies involved was ludicrous and that is still the case today. >And china lacks the will, talent and now access to catch up. China has practical implementations of 7nm process and are shipping product today from what I understand. Pedantically, China is ahead of Intel and thus the US right now. This is something the west should be terrified of, now is not the time for coping or denialism. Let alone the implied sentiments of "Ha ha, Intel's losing big bucks! Losers!" in threads like this which are the epitome of counterproductivity if the goal really is overcoming China instead of just ridding ourselves of Taiwan. >See the Ukraine war and Russia. To see what "no chips" looks like. modern optics on tanks are now outside what they can do, never mind glass cockpits of 4th and 5th gen fighters, never mind gps and smart mentions, never mind drones... And yet Ukraine still hasn't won. With western high tech. Mind you, I want Russia to lose and lose hard because I hate the idea of warmongering validated as a means of diplomacy in the 21st century, but it is what it is. It also goes without saying you don't need high tech to kill people and destroy entire landscapes. >China isnt stupid, they keep pouring money into missles in the hopes of being able to do exactly what you're saying. Yes? I said China might blow up Taiwan and they most likely eventually will. China couldn't care less about TSMC or really anyone and anything that exists on that island, they just want the island and they will invade if or when the geopolitical winds blow appropriately for them. >If you pay attention to recent conflicts you will note that the patriot missile system has been shooting down the best Russia has to offer. You will note that the anti missile ships off the coast of Yemen are using the same system and missles. That the brits and French are in on the game. Congratulations, we've managed to do the same thing as the misguided cavemen but did so behind schedule and over budget. Truly an achievement for the Nobel Peace Prize. Yeah no.

mike_hearn 3y ago

They probably also spend the money on pay rises. Does that also bother you? When investors buy shares, they are in effect giving money to the company. It might be indirect if they purchase from some other holder of the share, but ultimately those shares were issued by the company and the initial purchasers gave the company that money. Investors do this because they want a return. Either dividends or price growth or both. If there's no prospects for growth they will pull out their money and this will seriously hurt Intel, creating a downward spiral. The US Government is subsidizing Intel because they don't want it to die. An Intel that has crushed its investors will end up on permanent subsidy life support because nobody will trust it with their money again. An Intel that uses some of those subsidies to keep investors on-side will retain their trust, and give it a pathway off government support and back onto raising funds from the markets. So whilst this sort of thing makes the left very unhappy (often because they don't think of themselves as holding equities even when they do via pensions/insurance funds), it does make sense over the long run. Investors aren't an ATM that can just be raided at will. They're a coalition that can break.

paulmd 3y ago

Because the money isn’t a bailout, it’s to incentivize intel to do a financially suboptimal thing that the US finds strategically desirable. If building and running the fab in Arizona versus Ireland is going to cost intel $8b more, the options are do nothing and don’t get the fab, or pay the difference. Even if they are doing stock buybacks it doesn’t mean you can force intel’s shareholders to take a $8b loss without compensation - that’s a clear takings clause violation.