5 ms·

This is where drones and spies seem like the right approach. It can’t be hard to get a labourer on site with a cellphone or even just a tracker no?

bluepizza 3y ago
These communities are insular and lawless, not to mention hours away from any significantly sized town. They know who belongs there and who doesn't. The spy would have to be internal people who are turned, which is not easy either because these folks are not educated, and would have trouble hiding their new income or acting within the confines of a information providing program. Not impossible, but unfortunately, our government doesn't have the resources. Regarding drones, the area is impossibly large. If we had enough cash, live satellite monitoring and deployed army stations for every zone would be the ideal solution.
- wavefunction 3y ago
  "live satellite monitoring" are you talking about launching a geosynchronous spy-satellite as well as the analysis, communications and command structure to make use of the satellite information? Along with stationing thousands of troops deep in the jungle with no existing supporting infrastructure? And that being cheaper than deploying some loitering and FPS suicide drones? You could probably hike out with a "solar birdhouse" of FPS drones, attach it to a tree and deploy an FPS drone as needed while running 24/7 zones of loitering drone surveillance for very cheap. The real issue would be distinguishing between "illegal and prohibited" and "illegal but allowed" and "not illegal" activities in these communities since they rely so deeply on their environments for everything.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Did you mean "FPV" (first person view) drones?
  - bluepizza 3y ago
    It's really a lot of land. Amazon forest is estimated to have an area five times the area of Alaska. Drones are a drop in the bucket. My point was exactly about the fact that "cheap" doesn't cut it, unfortunately.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
Rinzler89 3y ago
>It can’t be hard to get a labourer on site with a cellphone or even just a tracker no? And then do what with it? I live in an EU country where illegal timber exploitation is rife, and there's not much a lone person with a drone can do. A lot of these areas are relatively remote and the underfunded police and rangers are usually quite far away and slow to show up, even when they're not paid by the timber mafia to look the other way. And by the time authorities do show up, the mobsters have been most likely tipped off and cleared the area. And if you're an average joe trying to directly interfere you're putting your life in danger since you're standing in the way of a multi million euro industry and there's camera footage of volunteer forest watchers being assaulted by timer mobsters on quad bikes wearing balaklavas. If this is happening in the EU I can't imagine what it's like in other places.
- mrcartmeneses 3y ago
  You’re just not thinking like a Brazilian death squad
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    No idea what that is. Care to detail?
    - wavefunction 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squad#Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squad#Brazil You're gonna have to read it for yourself though
    - lobocinza 3y ago
      Death squads were vigilante self-organizing groups of cops and sometimes their friends which would beat and murder "bad people". I don't think they exist in significant numbers today but in the past those groups existed in the open.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  Kosovo ?
raverbashing 3y ago
And you think there's phone signal on the middle of the jungle? Sometimes hundreds of miles from the nearest asphalt road? Check google maps and see how you'd get to and from here (notice, getting up here would be the "easy" part of the journey - there's even "street view" https://maps.app.goo.gl/2XEL3J3aJWoLEGY58 https://maps.app.goo.gl/2XEL3J3aJWoLEGY58 )
- bamboozled 3y ago
  Starlink, it's enabled lots of awesome nasty shit.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Unlikely, given that isn't even a partner in Brazil yet https://www.starlink.com/business/direct-to-cell https://www.starlink.com/business/direct-to-cell
    - mmaia 3y ago
      Starlink is available in Brazil and dominates the broadband market in Amazonas. Antennas are commonly found with illegal miners. [0] 0- https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/cv2edkw84zmo https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/cv2edkw84zmo (Portuguese) https://www.starlink.com/map https://www.starlink.com/map https://www.starlink.com/br/business https://www.starlink.com/br/business https://www.starlink.com/br/residential https://www.starlink.com/br/residential https://www.starlink.com/br/service-plans https://www.starlink.com/br/service-plans
    - joshuaissac 3y ago
      > Unlikely, given that isn't even a partner in Brazil yet The article mentions thrice the use of Starlink by the miners: > Cabral said; they must have been warned that the G.E.F. was coming. He pointed to a white rectangular antenna on a tall pole in the center of the camp and said, “Starlink”—Elon Musk’s portable satellite-communications system. > “Wherever the miners have Starlink, we’re at a real disadvantage,” Finger told me. “They can warn each other there is a raid going on in the territory, and they can organize their work better.” > The new farm had a Starlink connection, and, as the rains abated, a pilot said that he was sure the farm manager would warn the miners that we were coming.

bluepizza 3y ago

These communities are insular and lawless, not to mention hours away from any significantly sized town. They know who belongs there and who doesn't. The spy would have to be internal people who are turned, which is not easy either because these folks are not educated, and would have trouble hiding their new income or acting within the confines of a information providing program. Not impossible, but unfortunately, our government doesn't have the resources. Regarding drones, the area is impossibly large. If we had enough cash, live satellite monitoring and deployed army stations for every zone would be the ideal solution.

wavefunction 3y ago
"live satellite monitoring" are you talking about launching a geosynchronous spy-satellite as well as the analysis, communications and command structure to make use of the satellite information? Along with stationing thousands of troops deep in the jungle with no existing supporting infrastructure? And that being cheaper than deploying some loitering and FPS suicide drones? You could probably hike out with a "solar birdhouse" of FPS drones, attach it to a tree and deploy an FPS drone as needed while running 24/7 zones of loitering drone surveillance for very cheap. The real issue would be distinguishing between "illegal and prohibited" and "illegal but allowed" and "not illegal" activities in these communities since they rely so deeply on their environments for everything.
- gruez 3y ago
  Did you mean "FPV" (first person view) drones?
- bluepizza 3y ago
  It's really a lot of land. Amazon forest is estimated to have an area five times the area of Alaska. Drones are a drop in the bucket. My point was exactly about the fact that "cheap" doesn't cut it, unfortunately.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

Rinzler89 3y ago

>It can’t be hard to get a labourer on site with a cellphone or even just a tracker no? And then do what with it? I live in an EU country where illegal timber exploitation is rife, and there's not much a lone person with a drone can do. A lot of these areas are relatively remote and the underfunded police and rangers are usually quite far away and slow to show up, even when they're not paid by the timber mafia to look the other way. And by the time authorities do show up, the mobsters have been most likely tipped off and cleared the area. And if you're an average joe trying to directly interfere you're putting your life in danger since you're standing in the way of a multi million euro industry and there's camera footage of volunteer forest watchers being assaulted by timer mobsters on quad bikes wearing balaklavas. If this is happening in the EU I can't imagine what it's like in other places.

mrcartmeneses 3y ago
You’re just not thinking like a Brazilian death squad
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  No idea what that is. Care to detail?
  - wavefunction 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squad#Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_squad#Brazil You're gonna have to read it for yourself though
  - lobocinza 3y ago
    Death squads were vigilante self-organizing groups of cops and sometimes their friends which would beat and murder "bad people". I don't think they exist in significant numbers today but in the past those groups existed in the open.
mistrial9 3y ago
Kosovo ?

raverbashing 3y ago

And you think there's phone signal on the middle of the jungle? Sometimes hundreds of miles from the nearest asphalt road? Check google maps and see how you'd get to and from here (notice, getting up here would be the "easy" part of the journey - there's even "street view" https://maps.app.goo.gl/2XEL3J3aJWoLEGY58 https://maps.app.goo.gl/2XEL3J3aJWoLEGY58 )

bamboozled 3y ago
Starlink, it's enabled lots of awesome nasty shit.
- gruez 3y ago
  Unlikely, given that isn't even a partner in Brazil yet https://www.starlink.com/business/direct-to-cell https://www.starlink.com/business/direct-to-cell
  - mmaia 3y ago
    Starlink is available in Brazil and dominates the broadband market in Amazonas. Antennas are commonly found with illegal miners. [0] 0- https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/cv2edkw84zmo https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/cv2edkw84zmo (Portuguese) https://www.starlink.com/map https://www.starlink.com/map https://www.starlink.com/br/business https://www.starlink.com/br/business https://www.starlink.com/br/residential https://www.starlink.com/br/residential https://www.starlink.com/br/service-plans https://www.starlink.com/br/service-plans
  - joshuaissac 3y ago
    > Unlikely, given that isn't even a partner in Brazil yet The article mentions thrice the use of Starlink by the miners: > Cabral said; they must have been warned that the G.E.F. was coming. He pointed to a white rectangular antenna on a tall pole in the center of the camp and said, “Starlink”—Elon Musk’s portable satellite-communications system. > “Wherever the miners have Starlink, we’re at a real disadvantage,” Finger told me. “They can warn each other there is a raid going on in the territory, and they can organize their work better.” > The new farm had a Starlink connection, and, as the rains abated, a pilot said that he was sure the farm manager would warn the miners that we were coming.